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Old 02-14-2013, 01:46 PM   #31
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If anyone has been paying attention to TTAG (The Truth About Guns) "I Am a Gun Owner" series you'll see that gun ownership is not a red vs. blue issue.

The enemy really are Democratic POLITICIANS and they're vocal anti-gun supporters. Not all Dems and Libs are anti-gun. For that matter, be aware that there are Republicans who are anti-gun.

A serious mistake of gun culture is trying to equate being pro-gun as being on board with a whole host of issues that have NOTHING to do with gun ownership. Gun ownership needs to be "big tent". Gun rights needs to be single issue. You start getting into abortion, gay marriage, etc. etc. and the whole thing falls apart. I truly do see gun ownership as an issue that stands on its own.

If we make this an internal "us vs. them" issue, the anti-gunners will drive that wedge with everything they've got.

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Old 02-14-2013, 01:58 PM   #32
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If you cannot indetify your enemies you have a real problem. Wake up!! The Left Wing media and the Liberal Democrats are having a feeding frenzy. They are blaming the Republicans and the NRA for standing in the way of sane gun gun control. Am I going to forgive the Democrats for the 1934 gun bans? The 1968 Gun Bans? The Clinton ASWB? Look at all the Blue states run by the Left? You can hug a liberal while we fight the Left.

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Old 02-14-2013, 01:59 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by CrazedJava
If anyone has been paying attention to TTAG (The Truth About Guns) "I Am a Gun Owner" series you'll see that gun ownership is not a red vs. blue issue.

The enemy really are Democratic POLITICIANS and they're vocal anti-gun supporters. Not all Dems and Libs are anti-gun. For that matter, be aware that there are Republicans who are anti-gun.

A serious mistake of gun culture is trying to equate being pro-gun as being on board with a whole host of issues that have NOTHING to do with gun ownership. Gun ownership needs to be "big tent". Gun rights needs to be single issue. You start getting into abortion, gay marriage, etc. etc. and the whole thing falls apart. I truly do see gun ownership as an issue that stands on its own.

If we make this an internal "us vs. them" issue, the anti-gunners will drive that wedge with everything they've got.
Ido not disagree with anything you said there at all

The only thing to add to it is people's words don't always equal their actions

Saying you're pro gun but putting on your blinders with talk of awbs, mag bans, registration, and confiscation, and saying lets compromise is a logical fallacy

Sometimes it's easy to just say liberal than use the proper term of statist or authoritarian

Those two categories are red AND blue ... So you are correct we should be using proper terms here

Authoritarian ... Even if they call themselves liberals
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:03 PM   #34
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After watching the President's remarks on gun control last night, it's clear that the traditional way of fighting this battle is inefficient and often ineffective. Looking at polls and the reactions to that portion of the President's speech, it is clear that an "overwhelming majority of Americans support action" is a fabrication. A convenient cherry picking of facts. I too would like to see laws around guns change, but I support none of the proposals that the President is making.

So while we may be winning the war, the battles are costly. The NRA needs to update their approach. We know the tactics of gun grabbers. They are well document and have been observed time after time. Fighting these battles outside of the public eye means every fight is uphill. If they were more effective, this discussion would have been over a month ago. Instead, gun owners and the NRA are continuing to expend time and resources and the enemy knows we do not have an unlimited amount of either. In a war of attrition, we stand a chance of losing.

The NRA, maybe gun owners in general, need to start adopting the tactics of the anti-gunners. We need to get women and minorities in front of the camera instead of the standard "Old White Guys". I honestly cannot tell the difference between the standard NRA spokesperson and a US politician. That is a very bad thing. We need to start making the emotional appeals. "Gun save lives!" or "Without my gun I would be dead". The more dramatic the better. We see these stories in social media but the NRA does not seem to take up the flag. Also, we need to break out the race card and call out gun control policies as discriminatory against minorities and the poor. Pro-gun folks know this but the public at large does not. That message needs to get out there. Unlike the "NRA is racist" or "Gun owners are afraid of blacks" memes, at least this one is true.

Also, why not hammer home the problems in Chicago? I could not believe the President would use the slaying of a teenager in Chicago as part of his gun control platform. Chicago already has many of the policies he supports, and yet it leads the nation in murder. I think on some level many are aware of this, but it needs to get out in the popular culture. "We don't need Chicago-style gun control" would not be a bad theme to run for awhile.

We're fighting a movement driven by emotion with logic and reason. Well, logic and reason are on our side, but if we refuse to engage the enemy on their battlefield and they refuse to engage us on ours, then we have to take the fight to them. We just need to inject that logic and reason into our emotional appeals.

If we maintain, rightfully so, that gun owners are not just a bunch of OFWG's, then we need to get some fresh faces out there. I am finding this constant uphill battle exhausting.
I think the GOA needs to put some pressure out there as well.. They maybe likely to do more damage than the NRA IMO.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:04 PM   #35
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So far the NRA is not accepting a compromise. Nor should they.

My whole point to this thread though is that the NRA needs to find a more effective way of fighting. There latest ad about magazine limits is very well done, but it needs air time. Not just social media time.

I'm not even saying the NRA and gun owners will lose this fight. My concern is the enemy's ability to exhaust us.

Internal strife doesn't help the cause either. Maybe trying to have a discussion with fellow gun owners rather than shouting them down would be a good start.

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Old 02-14-2013, 02:11 PM   #36
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I am tired of your relentless Liberal bend. Don't try the crap that you are being shouted down. Those of us who have fought these battles going back to the 1960s with only 50,000 NRA members have heard all the BS before. Just be nice and and don't play rough.
We win because we focus on one issue and are not swayed with your liberal give a little agenda.

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Old 02-14-2013, 02:25 PM   #37
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I am tired of your relentless Liberal bend. Don't try the crap that you are being shouted down. Those of us who have fought these battles going back to the 1960s with only 50,000 NRA members have heard all the BS before. Just be nice and and don't play rough.
We win because we focus on one issue and are not swayed with your liberal give a little agenda.
If you think I have a liberal bend you need to step back and get some perspective. Also, I'm not suggesting we give on anything. None of the current gun control proposals will do anything to stop criminals, so I am against them. My stance is we give no ground.

My point is that we know the enemies tactics, but refuse to adapt. We don't have to always fight an uphill battle. It is great that the NRA seems to win the political backroom battle but some PR wins would help against the relentless media.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:30 PM   #38
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It would take millions and millions of dollars to combat the anti gun advocates and multiple recognized individuals to come even close to the free press they get on the MSM.

It is still left up to "We the People".

I will add the Alternative Media is by enlarge on the side of the 2a and should be promoted and shared as much as possible. People need to get their face away from the TV and their local fish wrap, you'll not find the truth there.

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Old 02-14-2013, 02:34 PM   #39
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This thread is a prime example of what is wrong with the gun culture... and movements in general whether political, religious, social or a mixture of any or all the above. Sooner or later you run into someone who is (in their mind at least) more hardcore and if you don't agree with them on every single aspect... or attempt to deviate and bring a new idea to the table... or attempt to have an (at least in the beginning) intellegent debate.. they label you or call you names.. marginalize and eventually try to dismiss your opinions and sometimes even you. I will not stoop to that level. I will treat others as I wish to be treated whether in agrrement or not... BUT in conclussion I would like to STRONGLY object to the speculation that I am a "troll"... especially by others who have NOT been here at the campfire nearly as long as I have.( right back at you)
If you have a problem with me.. report me to the mods and they'll determine if I stay or go.

This is my last post on this particular thread.

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Old 02-14-2013, 02:37 PM   #40
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My point is that we know the enemies tactics, but refuse to adapt.
I understand where you're coming from - I just disagree. Some people would say fight fire with fire, but I say get some bromochlorodifluoromethane or potassium bicarbonate.

We don't have to WIN an argument against a gun grabber. Our battle is not with them, or the media. It is with gun grabbing politicians.

A politician is easy. Just work hard to build up opposition to their reelection and watch them play turncoat on a dime.

I'm not saying this about you - but it does apply to lots of other people, in and outside of FTF, I don't want any compromisers on my team. No apologists. If you disagree with the NRA - fine - disagree with them. If you don't want a membership, then don't sign up. But until that person is willing to do something better - they need to keep their traps shut.

For all their faults - the NRA has long stood against an authoritarian mindset of stripping gun owners of their 2nd Amendment rights. They have my membership.
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