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Old 10-08-2011, 06:03 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by BenLuby View Post
The 'nobody is going to do anything' attitude that a lot of people have is one of the biggest problems we face. That's like the old adage, how do you eat an elephant?
Most people see the challenge and just give up and walk away. The rest of us just grab a fork and go at it, one bite at a time.
The 'not possible' mindset, if it were routine, we'd no longer have rights to arms, and the Carry and Conceal would not exist for anyone outside of law enforcement.
Nor would Arizona or MrWray or any of the other lawmen be allowed to carry in other states.
The attitude of 'screw you, I'ma gonna b1tch' is what has made a lot of our progress throughout history.
We must use that same mentality now to stop them from wantonly violating the law.
The 'can't be done' crowd is why we have so much cronyism in DC and other area's of government.
Look at what the Tea Party has accomplished. Acorn, NRA and other organizations. No, we won't agree 100% with all of them, or even half. But every single one of those organizations started with two people sitting at a table somewhere and saying 'screw it. Somebody has to do something!!'
And...snowball effect. If the people agree with what you are pushing for, then you'll get the backing to force it through.
Nothing scares politicians more than a mobilized voter base. And if people COULD mobilize their base, they could shake that tree and 'eat that elephant'.
I'm not sure what all you mean here, and what's directed at me, and what's not. But to avoid any confusion, I just want to point out that personally I WILL NEVER GIVE UP. I just have no faith in the rest of our population.
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:17 PM   #22
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I have not been known for throwing accusations around on this board. I think I'm pretty fair handed and friendly with those I disagree with. But you know what... that's a pretty asinine comment right there.

If you can't tell the difference between willful negligence and facilitation of criminal activities, and having an act of war committed upon you; then you are seriously lacking in the area of common sense.

Actually, I can tell the difference in willful negligence and facilitation. I do not think that the President of the US is aware of every hair-brained scheme that the millions of federal employees come up with. If he is guilty because it happened on his watch, then, by the same standards, Bush should be held responsible for the hair-brained failure of his inteligence services. That would be applying the same standards to both.

Fast and furious, in retrospect, sounds stupid. Most failures do. It will be determined if it was criminal. If E.H. lied to congress, he should be tried for lying to congress, and he probably will be.

Now if you want to talk about stupid failures of presidents, we could discuss starting wars in Afganistan and Iraq. Those should be considered criminal. When we finally extract ourselves from those disasters, we will have cost the lives of tens of thousands of people with the end result being that Iraq and Afganistan will return to being exactly what they were before we went there. We will be less safe than we were before. Our treasury has spent countless billions of dollars that we and our children will have to pay for.

The only thing we have to show for these two wars is the death of Osama, and that happened on the current president's watch. I do not think that the cost in lives and treasure is worth it to kill one man.

The only folks to profit from these disasters are the military-industrial complex who have made money hand-over-fist for the last ten years. They are now stirring the pots of Iran and Pakistan, they just can't afford peace.

“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” Hermann Goering

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it” Adolph Hitler
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:25 PM   #23
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trip,

I understand your frustration! However I and others have decided to fight! We can win in numbers. And 2012 is a good time to start! Doesn't say we can clean this mess and atrocity up soon but it would be a start. Yes I also wish there was a candidate who would barnstorm in 2012. Of course, I am thinking of someone like Schwarzkopf, Oliver North, Petraeus who have been there in the trenches, have common sense, intelligence and know what is really going on. We would have won every war we have been in if we could keep the politicians from making back seat driver decisions when they have no experience and not a clue. Most have never served their military and country and are only interested in supporting their own private agendas & $$$$$. I certainly do not have the answer but I do know one thing. I like others are totally pi--ed off and am taking a stand at this time. As my dad always told me, if we do nothing and we do not stand for something we will stand for anything. And a population who has second amendment rights are citizens while those who do not are subjects! I will remain forever to be a citizen regardless of the consequences. I not only think about me and my rights and conditions but also my children, grandchildren and those to follow. I want them to know that I was a true American and will forever defend our American heritage and freedom as well as the opportunity for them also to enjoy their rights and freedom.
God Bless the USA!

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Old 10-08-2011, 06:26 PM   #24
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The only thing we have to show for these two wars is the death of Osama, and that happened on the current president's watch. I do not think that the cost in lives and treasure is worth it to kill one man.
I still maintain this is a big lie and a farce. I have seen NO proof of this being the case and the team that supposedly killed him were convienently killed in an "Terrorist RPG attack" one short week later.

Its all just a little to convienent for me!

I love my country but i fear and DISTRUST my Govt.!!!
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:29 PM   #25
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I still maintain this is a big lie and a farce. I have seen NO proof of this being the case and the team that supposedly killed him were convienently killed in an "Terrorist RPG attack" one short week later.

Its all just a little to convienent for me!

I love my country but i fear and DISTRUST my Govt.!!!
Why does this not surprise me?
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:40 PM   #26
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Why does this not surprise me?
I have learned the hard way (especially where the Govt is concerned) to trust no one and believe NOTHING....at least without proof.

An attitude i think more people need to adopt.
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Old 10-08-2011, 06:54 PM   #27
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I'm not sure what all you mean here, and what's directed at me, and what's not. But to avoid any confusion, I just want to point out that personally I WILL NEVER GIVE UP. I just have no faith in the rest of our population.
None of that is directed personally at you, trip. It is an overall comment on the status quo that seems to rule this land.
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:56 PM   #28
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I still maintain this is a big lie and a farce. I have seen NO proof of this being the case and the team that supposedly killed him were convienently killed in an "Terrorist RPG attack" one short week later.

Its all just a little to convienent for me!

I love my country but i fear and DISTRUST my Govt.!!!
It was pretty durn convenient wasn't it? I figured one of two things, either they were a liability and were taken out (yes that's how little I trust our Gov.) or they were getting to much publicity and this is a conspiracy for them to go into hiding and they are alive somewhere with their families.

I really don't see how a team such as that one would be standing QRF duty in Afghanistan for an Army unit.
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Old 10-08-2011, 08:58 PM   #29
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None of that is directed personally at you, trip. It is an overall comment on the status quo that seems to rule this land.
I didn't really feel it was, and took no offense to it, I just wanted to make sure there was no misunderstanding. It's sometimes hard to convey true meaning of one's words when they are typed.
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:34 PM   #30
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and were taken out
Remember, dead men tell NO tales.

We saw pics (proof) of every other person dead and bloated in the "deck of cards" but not THE MOST wanted man?? It dont add up.

They were taken out so they couldnt (when they retired) tell the truth of the matter in a book.
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