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Old 11-04-2012, 07:17 PM   #31
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Much better avatar. I still ain't sharing though.

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Old 11-04-2012, 07:50 PM   #32
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I have a question for all of you who think it's ok for LEO's to stop people and ask for ID when they aren't breaking any laws. Suppose you went to baseball practice everyday and you had to bring your own bat. Now what would you do if everyday a cop stopped you and asked you for ID and why are you carrying that bat? How long would it take you to get tired of that? How long before you developed a bad attitude? How many times would it take before you bring a camera with you? You make assumptions that these guys just strapped on a gun and brought their camera with them just to screw with people. Just maybe they were tired of being screwed with for doing something that is perfectly legal. Land of the free my ass.

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Old 11-04-2012, 08:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by rjd3282
I have a question for all of you who think it's ok for LEO's to stop people and ask for ID when they aren't breaking any laws. Suppose you went to baseball practice everyday and you had to bring your own bat. Now what would you do if everyday a cop stopped you and asked you for ID and why are you carrying that bat? How long would it take you to get tired of that? How long before you developed a bad attitude? How many times would it take before you bring a camera with you? You make assumptions that these guys just strapped on a gun and brought their camera with them just to screw with people. Just maybe they were tired of being screwed with for doing something that is perfectly legal. Land of the free my ass.
Amen brother. Our gov. is getting more and more out of control all the time
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Old 11-04-2012, 08:21 PM   #34
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I have a question for all of you who think it's ok for LEO's to stop people and ask for ID when they aren't breaking any laws. Suppose you went to baseball practice everyday and you had to bring your own bat. Now what would you do if everyday a cop stopped you and asked you for ID and why are you carrying that bat? How long would it take you to get tired of that? How long before you developed a bad attitude? How many times would it take before you bring a camera with you? You make assumptions that these guys just strapped on a gun and brought their camera with them just to screw with people. Just maybe they were tired of being screwed with for doing something that is perfectly legal. Land of the free my ass.


I am not a fan of Open Carry simply because I believe it compromises your tactical edge by drawing unwanted attention to the fact that you are armed. I also understand your position. But there has to be some appreciation of reality here, and the reality is--whether we like it or not--that people freak out when they see a guy with a gun and that most LEOs consider Open Carry openly antagonistic. My suggestion is if you want to make a statement about Open Carry Rights, make it with a group at a public demonstration rather than walk down the street alone.
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Old 11-04-2012, 08:29 PM   #35
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So, Officer Friendly stops an Open Carrier and conducts a Field Interview. He notes the gentleman's name and address. Maybe he even notes why he stopped the gentleman, what he was wearing, and any other pertinent information gleaned from his interrogation. He probably even makes a note that the OC'er is wearing a white shirt, blue jeans and is carrying a Glock in 9mm (he might even have written down the serial number.)

Officer Friendly writes it all down because well... he can't be expected to remember Everything, right?

Officer Friendly also cares about his fellow officers and wouldn't want any of them to be unaware of anything 'off color, strange, unusual' or out of the ordinary happening within the boundaries of the precinct. Knowing this, Officer Friendly transcribes his Field Interview notes into a shared, centralized database that other officers can access. Six months later, someone wearing a white shirt, blue jeans and carrying what appeared to be a Glock pistol robs someone.

Guess who's gonna show up when a search is made for incidents where a citizen was wearing a white shirt, blue jeans and carrying a Glock?

Congratulations, you're now "in the system" and you aren't ever getting out.

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Old 11-04-2012, 08:49 PM   #36
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Very interesting! I spent 30+ years in LE and am still doing it. I was a LEO for 26 years in CO, 6 years in AK, and now in AL. CO is an open carry state as a result of the state Constitution which specifically makes CC unlawful. The courts have changed this, but when the state constitution was ratified only 'dastardly' people hid their guns, real men did not (1876). AK and AL are both open carry BUT many LEO's in AL think they can enforce their 'law' not statutory law and it has come back to bite them.
I find it hard to believe that Texas, of all places, has laws against OC!!!
You would think that a state with a rich history of the 'frontier' would not have laws which violate the RTKABA's!!!!
I guess those in Texas need to get to work to chance this. As I said above OC in public is not advisable and defies common sense, but it is your RIGHT!!!!
That said, there is a problem with how LE is trained to handle these contacts. I went out of my way to train all those I was task to do so to not be 'afraid' of GUNS, but to consider the person and circumstances first.
We have an up hill battle in this area because the 'new' breed of cops are taught to be almost paranoid of any gun in the interest of 'officer safety'!
I agree on many levels. I am NOT a proponent of OC. I am a huge proponent of CC. I like it that the BG's are not sure who has a gun til it is too late (for the BG's). CC works well.

As far as the "new breed" of officers? This is a very real issue. When I started in LE, most officers were "gun people" they grew up around guns, hunted, were in the military, owned guns, etc. The got into LE because it was a challenging, physical, demanding occupation. Doing the "right thing" and putting bad guys behind bars was ample reward for their service. They money sucked but the intangibles were huge! Now the money is good and the field has attracted some people who are doing it for the wrong reasons (IMHO). There are the Sociologists and counselors who want to "help" people (nothing wrong with the concept, but their skills are perhaps better used in a clinical setting). There are the glory hounds who want to race around stirring up $hit. There are the bullies who like the power. There are those who like the security of a government paycheck and pension.

None of the aforementioned make good officers. Common sense is lacking in the field (I suppose like everywhere else in our society). Common sense is not fostered and cannot be taught. You have it or you don't. In the scramble to "professionalize" the field, we have gained a bunch of folks with degrees (I have a degree, but don't hold that against me) and lost all connection with common sense. A city very near by me (about 200 yards as I type) has several thousand officers that are incapable of making a good common sense decision. A supervisor MUST approve ALL arrests before the offender can be transported to jail. A supervisor MUST be on scene before ALL searches can be completed. They have reams of rules and regulations directing every aspect of the job. The administration has worked tirelessly to create a system where an officer cannot make a bad decision. As a consequence, they cannot make ANY decision. If one cannot ever make a bad decision, one cannot ever learn how to make good decisions. This has ben goingon long enough that they now have Detectives and Sergeants that were never allowed to make bad decisions and now are having to make decisions for the new officers. How can they do that with ZERO decision making skills? It will only get worse for them.
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:01 PM   #37
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Robo, one could only hope that those making the decisions now may have learned something from their superiors.

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Old 11-04-2012, 09:29 PM   #38
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Poking you finger in a cop's eye is not something that generally ends up good for the poker. Cops have a lot of tools available to push back with. Disorderly conduct comes to mind. Treat the cops with respect if they will allow it, and they generally reciprocate, unless you have been a bad boy.

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Old 11-04-2012, 10:17 PM   #39
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Poking you finger in a cop's eye is not something that generally ends up good for the poker. Cops have a lot of tools available to push back with. Disorderly conduct comes to mind. Treat the cops with respect if they will allow it, and they generally reciprocate, unless you have been a bad boy.
Even if that officer is behaving illegally?
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Old 11-04-2012, 11:02 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Chainfire View Post
Poking you finger in a cop's eye is not something that generally ends up good for the poker. Cops have a lot of tools available to push back with. Disorderly conduct comes to mind. Treat the cops with respect if they will allow it, and they generally reciprocate, unless you have been a bad boy.


Oh yes let's all bow down in fear to the police and their God like power. You either understand the word "infringement" or you don't. If you don't, buy a dictionary.
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