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-   -   Open carry and dirty cops (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/open-carry-dirty-cops-28248/)

clip11 06-13-2010 05:57 AM

Open carry and dirty cops
 
I'm strongly considering openly carrying my pistol. Now I live in Detroit....not metro Detroit, but actually within the city limits. Theres a big push to get guns off the streets here in Detroit because of all the shootings that happen in the city.

Gang squad cops are stopping people for things like broken taillights and loitering and using that as probable cause to search them for weapons. However, its only certain groups that they are doing this to, and I happen to be in that group. I'm a 23 year old black male, exactly the kind of person Detroit police DOES NOT want carrying a gun. Sure a middle age white man may catch some flak for open carrying, but I know if I do it, they may be ready to send in the SWAT team. I know open carry in Michigan is legal, but what if I am open carrying and some police arrest me and say I was CONCEALED CARRYING and charge me with a CCW violation, which is a 2-5 year felony and/or a $2500 fine? One night I was in a gas station by my house buying a cinnamon roll when two undercover cops came in behind me with their badges out and said they needed to frisk me because it looked like I might be carrying a gun. I had left it at home, but that wasnt the point.

If 3 or 4 officers say I was concealed carrying when I was clearly open carrying, what should I do and what precautions should I take?

P.S. I didnt mean anything against middle aged white men I was just illustrating a fact, so please, I'm begging you, no one get offended!

http://www.freep.com/article/20100606/NEWS01/6060442/Cops-prowl-Detroit-for-guns

RJCXJ 06-13-2010 06:10 AM

As a middle aged white guy..... I am not offended at all....

BUT it is my advice that if you can concealed carry.... do that if you know you are in an area that OC will just get you unwanted attention...

MSP - Michigan's Concealed Pistol Law - FAQs

AND even if you want to OC.... get your permit and then you don't have to worry. Sure you might get cuffed, but when they find your permit and you check out, the law is on your side.

M14sRock 06-13-2010 06:44 AM

I'm not offended, Clip. Detroit can be rough.

I am not familiar with any Detroit laws, but carrying a concealed handgun is a felony? 2-5 year felony? Seems a bit extreme.

Does Detroit issue CCW's? Is open carry legal in Detroit? Open carry can become CCW if angles change.

doctherock 06-13-2010 07:13 AM

Its a shame that a law abiding citizen cant carry because of his race. It is unfortunate that one bad apple can ruin the whole bunch as they say. I hope all works out well for you clip and hope you can continue to carry for your protection. Dont know what else i can say other than that. I live way over here in Oregon and on the coast we don't have the same issues as the big city. Oh and no offense taken on the middle aged white male thing and that's coming from a 34 year old white male. You spoke it like you see it and I see it the same way from my shoes. Best place to get the answer you seek is an attorney or the courts.

pandamonium 06-13-2010 07:32 AM

Clip, here's my 2 cent's, I do not know the laws there, but if your handgun needs to be registered and/or a permit to own, then before I walked out of the house, I would make sure I had ALL of my ducks in a row. Have any required pemits/licenses/I.D. cards or whatever you could possibly need, in your posession. Maybe open carry in a way that could not possibly be concealed, such as a shoulder holster.
I do think you would be, lets say, looked at, by LEO's at every step. On the same note, the LEO's would probably get to know you by name and you would stop being looked at after a bit. You may even consider going into the closest Police station and discussing it, get their opinion and ( I can see it now) recommendations, if they have a heads up you may often just get a honk of the horn and a wave. Maybe.
What ever you decide, do it smart and stay safe. Good luck!

Pat-inCO 06-13-2010 07:49 AM

It sounds like you are contemplating both standing on Super Man's cape AND spitting into the wind.

I would suggest you go to the PD and talk with them. If you get as nasty a response as you anticipate, then to carry would seem a poor choice. If they can provide you another option, or one that will minimize your potential exposure, it sure sounds worth the time.

Detroit may be unique in the US but the police I have talked with and yes, even worked with, are much more cooperative when you come in low keyed and asking for their assistance. Yell or demand anything and many will be "less friendly". ;)

opaww 06-13-2010 09:56 AM

No offence taken clip11, and sense I know and have seen what you are talking about happen myself. I can only say that things may change but not likely. One thing you can do is find a group of open carry supporters and join them in their efforts to be recognized by LEO's as simply Law abiding people who are exercising their rights.

If you are with a group to start out open carry, it makes it safer and remember a video camera is your friend also.

ninjatoth 06-13-2010 03:43 PM

Like previously stated,carry in a way that cannot be concealed,like a drop leg holster,and please stay out of your vehicle if you are open carrying because you can't open carry while driving in MI,but i'm sure you knew that already.

bkt 06-13-2010 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clip11 (Post 299011)
I'm strongly considering openly carrying my pistol. Now I live in Detroit....not metro Detroit, but actually within the city limits. Theres a big push to get guns off the streets here in Detroit because of all the shootings that happen in the city.

Gang squad cops are stopping people for things like broken taillights and loitering and using that as probable cause to search them for weapons. However, its only certain groups that they are doing this to, and I happen to be in that group. I'm a 23 year old black male, exactly the kind of person Detroit police DOES NOT want carrying a gun.

Neither a broken tail light nor talking with friends on a street corner are probable cause for the cops to do anything. The right lawyer could turn cops who thought otherwise into unemployable hamburger.

Older folks remember a time when cops walked a beat and got to know people personally. Who in the neighborhood was OK, who was mischievous but not a criminal, and who the bad guys were. He was respected and liked by the community he worked in because he liked and respected the community. He was one of them.

But today, things are different. Cops roam around in cars and never walk a beat. Cops don't stop and shoot the breeze with people in the community. They don't know the people and they distrust them. And the people distrust the cops. Our society has changed for the worse because of this. This division between the good guys in a community and cops is more deadly than we can imagine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clip11 (Post 299011)
Sure a middle age white man may catch some flak for open carrying, but I know if I do it, they may be ready to send in the SWAT team. I know open carry in Michigan is legal, but what if I am open carrying and some police arrest me and say I was CONCEALED CARRYING and charge me with a CCW violation, which is a 2-5 year felony and/or a $2500 fine?

Don't wear a shirt? Or bring along a couple friends?

Also, know a good attorney and have a printed copy of the law with you when/if cops approach. Speak in a normal tone of voice, be polite, and show you understand the law. If you do that right, they might walk away...you're not what they're looking for.

Set aside some money for attorney fees.

Ain't America great? :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by clip11 (Post 299011)
One night I was in a gas station by my house buying a cinnamon roll when two undercover cops came in behind me with their badges out and said they needed to frisk me because it looked like I might be carrying a gun. I had left it at home, but that wasnt the point.

Lift up your shirt and spin 360 degrees.

Being a young black guy should never be reason for cops to say anything to you but "Hi, have a nice day."

Quote:

Originally Posted by clip11 (Post 299011)
If 3 or 4 officers say I was concealed carrying when I was clearly open carrying, what should I do and what precautions should I take?

You're screwed. You might want to consider moving out of that area before that happens to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by clip11 (Post 299011)
P.S. I didnt mean anything against middle aged white men I was just illustrating a fact, so please, I'm begging you, no one get offended!

No offense taken. What you describe makes my blood boil.

clip11 06-14-2010 03:24 AM

I tried open carrying today, no cops saw me. But EVERYONE AND I MEAN EVERYONE, who did thought I was breaking the law by not having a permit. Someone even told me that MI was not an open carry state! I tried explaining it, but it was like trying to explain how to change a flat tire to a baby.


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