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One cop's view of open carry


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Old 09-22-2013, 03:48 AM   #101
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I personally carry concealed even though it is legal to open carry in the state where I reside. I've known a lot of people that open carry and I can say that 99% of them either open carry for attention and or they hope to get stopped by a LEO so that they can rub it in the LEO's face that it is legal because they just don't like cops. The 1% open carry because it is legal and they want to exercise their right to open carry and not look for attention. Personally, I don't want to show my hand. I want to keep people wondering whether if I am carrying or not. I want them to think twice before they try anything illegal. If I was to open carry, the bad guys will notice me first before i would notice them and then they can prepare their plan differently to take me out first. But that's just my own opinion.
You are right! There are people loose on the street that would take another mans life without a second thought. Instead of a robbery, they would just ambush you for your cash and your gun.

I have ran into people who have been in prison all there life. They couldn't cope with life on the street. One guy I worked with was "institutionalized" we did all we could to keep him working and happy. Finally he gave everyone in his family nice gifts of jewelry. A couple weeks later he was arrested for robbing a jewelry store. He said he was ready to go home.
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Old 09-22-2013, 04:17 AM   #102
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You are right! There are people loose on the street that would take another mans life without a second thought. Instead of a robbery, they would just ambush you for your cash and your gun.

I have ran into people who have been in prison all there life. They couldn't cope with life on the street. One guy I worked with was "institutionalized" we did all we could to keep him working and happy. Finally he gave everyone in his family nice gifts of jewelry. A couple weeks later he was arrested for robbing a jewelry store. He said he was ready to go home.
You have stats for that?
I honestly can not remember ever hearing of an OC person getting their weapon taken from them in na ambush because some thug seen it and it made them a target. Situational awareness and a good holster and nothing it getting taken from them.

Most the OC people I know personally do it because they can and it does not require the permission slip for our masters in government to do. So many are against registration because they don't agree wit ha list of owners, but have no trouble lining up to tell big bro they are going to carry the gun they don't want to register.

I'll agree there are plenty of asshats trying to get their 15 mins of YouTube time and they can be just plain stupid. But they do create awareness to a right. I think they can not be so combative and still get that point across. I carry open and have no desire to generate attention or get loud with police. I really don't care if they stop me on the street and ask me for ID. I don't have to give it but I don't not have to either. I have a clean record and they probably got sent out on a call and in the end I'm still the man with a gun. Let them do their job and we both be on with our lives. I don't even own a video camera Now I"m sure they still get calls about the old guy with a gun and they might drive by, see me, wave and move on. I shoot with several cops in different agencies and for the most part they don't want to go on a call like that anyway.

But the thing is the ones that are not being urban ninjas looking or a good chance at a vid still have a place. Because they still raise awareness. Some cops might not really know, some might not care, but they all need to understand it's the law and they are required to enforce it weather they agree with it or not. I do wish the youtube OC ninjas would calm down some though. But there's always one around someplace. If it wasn't guns then it's DUI checkpoints or other evil cop stuff

At any rate the little card does nothing to make things any better. Asshats get permits too. And it does create a record of pretty good size slice of gun owners. It most of all changes a right to a privilege. Because the card may be taken away and you can still be a legal gun owner. You just no longer have permission to carry as you see fit.
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:25 AM   #103
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You have stats for that?
I honestly can not remember ever hearing of an OC person getting their weapon taken from them in na ambush because some thug seen it and it made them a target. Situational awareness and a good holster and nothing it getting taken from them.
It happened once out here. BG took the gun out of the holster while the guy was pumping gas and robbed the guy with it, then pistol whipped him and rolled out.

Thats very unusual though. It is why I always encourage OCers to get weapons retention training and carry in a law enforcement holster with level III retention features.

But as a rule, a good guy with a gun is a deterrent. Most criminals are like animals and prey on the weak. They look for an easy target. An alert individual displaying a weapon is not an easy target.
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Old 09-22-2013, 05:41 AM   #104
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It happened once out here. BG took the gun out of the holster while the guy was pumping gas and robbed the guy with it, then pistol whipped him and rolled out.

Thats very unusual though. It is why I always encourage OCers to get weapons retention training and carry in a law enforcement holster with level III retention features.

But as a rule, a good guy with a gun is a deterrent. Most criminals are like animals and prey on the weak. They look for an easy target. An alert individual displaying a weapon is not an easy target.
As you said, it has happened, but it is extremely rare. A while back there was a thread about that. The most cases we could find was only 4-5, and some of those didn't really count since it was not in an open carry situation that a citizen would find themselves in. (one case, a clerk had his gun taken and used on him, but IIRC, it was not on his person at the time.)
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:40 PM   #105
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A cop goes to court and says "I observed this. Witnesses stated that. I found this other thing." The attorneys argue, the judge or jury says guilty or not guilty. The person is sentenced. The trial is over.

A cop gets called in to the office because of lawsuits and/or the media, and the politicians don't care what he observed, what the witnesses stated, what the evidence shows. They care about protecting their image, so they try to push it all on the cop. It's that simple.

What part of that don't you understand? It's not comparing a Goose to a gander. It's comparing a wild animal to a range target stapled and clipped to a frame in front of a backstop. The wild animal lived or dies based on the choices it makes. The range target just soaks up rounds and tries to survive it all.
We have covered this. I understand, but you left out the part where the cop doesn't seek a resolution through the courts. The courts are generally presented as the correct way for non-cops to resolve their problems, but you ignore them in your comparison as if the courts were either unavailable or unsuitable for the LEO's.

I understand your position. I disagree with your contention that the courts aren't for everyone, LEOs included. We can agree to disagree on that.
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Old 09-22-2013, 03:53 PM   #106
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It happened once out here. BG took the gun out of the holster while the guy was pumping gas and robbed the guy with it, then pistol whipped him and rolled out.

Thats very unusual though. It is why I always encourage OCers to get weapons retention training and carry in a law enforcement holster with level III retention features.

But as a rule, a good guy with a gun is a deterrent.......
I was glad to read that last part. Much depends on attitude and the circumstances of course, but maybe one day, the average LEO will see the average armed citizen as a potential ally and not conclude that one of "them" is armed and therefore may be a threat.

That would be really something.
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Old 09-22-2013, 04:00 PM   #107
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I was glad to read that last part. Much depends on attitude and the circumstances of course, but maybe one day, the average LEO will see the average armed citizen as a potential ally and not conclude that one of "them" is armed and therefore may be a threat.

That would be really something.
from the LEO's i have encountered lately and speaking with them, several from different agencies, i think it is changing. i also think it's changing for the better, not the worse.

i think that they are coming to realize that armed LAC's are not a threat to them, and that more LAC's are becoming armed to defend themselves and to not be victims.

i think we still have a ways to go, but IMO it is getting much better.
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:01 PM   #108
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from the LEO's i have encountered lately and speaking with them, several from different agencies, i think it is changing. i also think it's changing for the better, not the worse.

i think that they are coming to realize that armed LAC's are not a threat to them, and that more LAC's are becoming armed to defend themselves and to not be victims.

i think we still have a ways to go, but IMO it is getting much better.
It is. I regularly meet the Det. Lt. From the next town over at our pizza place. When I lived there he fingerprinted me and the DW for our CCW's. He feels by and large that all of our local regional PD's are getting in service training on the new state codes. They in turn are out doing speaking at events. The various Aux/Vol LE's are also getting trained as well. Ours is next week....
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:23 PM   #109
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It is. I regularly meet the Det. Lt. From the next town over at our pizza place. When I lived there he fingerprinted me and the DW for our CCW's. He feels by and large that all of our local regional PD's are getting in service training on the new state codes. They in turn are out doing speaking at events. The various Aux/Vol LE's are also getting trained as well. Ours is next week....
thank you for sharing that. it shows that LEO's for the most part want to be well informed and to try and do things the right way in regards to how they react to citizens carrying firearms.

but as citizens, how we react to an encounter goes a long way too. acting like a jerk or an idiot on a mission to trump up a LEO is by no means a positive experiance for either one in the long run, and does more damage than good.

nothing to do with guns, but an encounter i had about four years ago, that could have gone bad for either of us.

there was an armed robbery of a store in our town and they were looking for the person that committed the robbery. he was driving a late model white ext. cab dodge truck. well i had to go to town and knew nothing about the robbery or the BOLO for a white Dodge truck. guess what my vehicle was? yep! a white late model ext. cab Dodge truck! guess what? yep i got pulled over, with guns drawn, ordered to the ground on my knees, hands locked behind my head, and then handcuffed. at first i was in shock an wanting to know what was going on. after they determined who i was and established my identity, i was released with a huge apology for reacting the way they did. well i could have been all butthurt and made a federal case out of it, but for what? they were looking for someone driving pretty much the same truck as i was and they were on high alert. like i said they apoligised for doing what they did, and i told them i fully understood. one even said i could report their actions to their commander if i felt like i had been treated unfairly. wow! did i press the issue further? by no means! i felt like they did the right thing and they had apoligised for treating me the way they did.

LEO's are people too. they make mistakes just like everyone else does. if you want respect, than you give respect. LEO's just want to do their job and go home like everyone else.

are there LEO's that break the rules or laws? yes there are. but there is a very huge difference in a corrupt LEO and one who makes and honest mistake. we need to know the difference and treat them accordingly.
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:35 PM   #110
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I was glad to read that last part. Much depends on attitude and the circumstances of course, but maybe one day, the average LEO will see the average armed citizen as a potential ally and not conclude that one of "them" is armed and therefore may be a threat.

That would be really something.
This is the Deep South. Everybody here has a gun. As long as they use common sense most of us leave them alone.

Since the Dbags have started this youtube crap most agencies are doing specific in service training on how to handle that specific situation, and how to handle people OCing in general.
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