Okay, so straw purchases are illegal
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism > Okay, so straw purchases are illegal

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-08-2013, 08:49 PM   #1
Retired
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
danf_fl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LA (Lower Alabama),FL
Posts: 10,386
Liked 2957 Times on 1705 Posts
Likes Given: 1272

Default Okay, so straw purchases are illegal

I can understand "give and take" in negotiations.
The Democrats got some support on "Straw purchases"
http://news.yahoo.com/senate-panel-backs-crackdown-clandestine-gun-sales-010612683.html

But for some reason, I think this was kind of like giving a bottle to a baby.
"Shut the kid up" and we get some peace.

"Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2) make any materially false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or representation; 3) in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative or judicial branch of the United States. Your lie does not even have to be made directly to an employee of the national government as long as it is "within the jurisdiction" of the ever expanding federal bureaucracy. Though the falsehood must be "material" this requirement is met if the statement has the "natural tendency to influence or [is] capable of influencing, the decision of the decisionmaking body to which it is addressed." United States v. Gaudin , 515 U.S. 506, 510 (1995). "
(source: http://corporate.findlaw.com/litigation-disputes/how-to-avoid-going-to-jail-under-18-u-s-c-section-1001-for-lying.html )

So when completing the 4473 and you lie that you are the actual buyer, you commited a felony.

So what are the Democrats giving the legal gun owners for this "victory" they received?

__________________

Amendment II:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Life Member NRA
Life Member NAHC
Former President of the ECPT (Eifel Combat Pistol Team)

danf_fl is online now  
 
Reply With Quote

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today - It's Free!

Are you a firearms enthusiast? Then we hope you will join the community. You will gain access to post, create threads, private message, upload images, join groups and more.

Firearms Talk is owned and operated by fellow firearms enthusiasts. We strive to offer a non-commercial community to learn and share information.

Join FirearmsTalk.com Today! - Click Here


Old 03-09-2013, 03:54 AM   #2
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
1911love's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,484
Liked 640 Times on 386 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

I like the part of the yahoo article where the guy talks about Sandy Hook and how an AWB would have lessened the killing. Conn already has an AWB. WTF are these hoplophobes smoking!!!

__________________
1911love is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 04:06 AM   #3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Jpyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sewell,NJ
Posts: 4,817
Liked 762 Times on 441 Posts
Likes Given: 461

Default

Quote:
So when completing the 4473 and you lie that you are the actual buyer, you commited a felony.
True..but what if the end result of this negotiated compromise now makes the gifting or purchase of a gun as a gift a straw purchase and, therefore, a felony. As it now stands you can answer the 4473 question honestly and gift the gun to a family member...the new law may prohibit that by making the transfer itself the crime, not the response to a question. The devil is, as they say, in the details.
__________________

"The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals.... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." (Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789)

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington

Jpyle is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 10:49 AM   #4
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Detroit,mi
Posts: 2,876
Liked 897 Times on 546 Posts
Likes Given: 202

Default

If you can't transfer a weapon... it will have to be destroyed.

__________________
partdeux is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 12:22 PM   #5
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Jpyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sewell,NJ
Posts: 4,817
Liked 762 Times on 441 Posts
Likes Given: 461

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by partdeux View Post
If you can't transfer a weapon... it will have to be destroyed.
What I meant to imply was that a transfer could not take place without a separate 4473 and NICS.
__________________

"The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals.... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of." (Albert Gallatin of the New York Historical Society, October 7, 1789)

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington

Jpyle is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 02:14 PM   #6
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Idaho --,Happy
Posts: 1,905
Liked 341 Times on 237 Posts
Likes Given: 38

Default

It is hard to prove a straw purchase, anyone can just change their mind. But if all gun sales had to have a UBC then the straw purchase game would come to an end. Why would anyone put a gun in his/her own name and give it to someone that can't pass a UBC.

What do they do to someone that sells a gun to someone and then that gun is involved in a crime ? In Idaho I can sell a gun to anyone. It lies more in who is in possession of that gun. As a seller I am not required to check if someone is a criminal. If you can't have guns because of your criminal record and you have guns then you are a criminal, why go back to jail for just having a gun in possession ? I don't have a problem with UBC's for all gun sales.

__________________
Flat Tire is offline  
Warrior1256 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 11:11 PM   #7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Louisville, Ky.
Posts: 615
Liked 325 Times on 194 Posts
Likes Given: 517

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1911love View Post
I like the part of the yahoo article where the guy talks about Sandy Hook and how an AWB would have lessened the killing. Conn already has an AWB. WTF are these hoplophobes smoking!!!
Your point is right on target, trying to talk logic to an anti is hopeless.
__________________
Warrior1256 is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 04:06 PM   #8
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: The Free State of Winston, AL
Posts: 3,089
Liked 2014 Times on 1191 Posts
Likes Given: 971

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by danf_fl View Post
I can understand "give and take" in negotiations.
The Democrats got some support on "Straw purchases"
http://news.yahoo.com/senate-panel-backs-crackdown-clandestine-gun-sales-010612683.html

But for some reason, I think this was kind of like giving a bottle to a baby.
"Shut the kid up" and we get some peace.

"Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2) make any materially false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or representation; 3) in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative or judicial branch of the United States. Your lie does not even have to be made directly to an employee of the national government as long as it is "within the jurisdiction" of the ever expanding federal bureaucracy. Though the falsehood must be "material" this requirement is met if the statement has the "natural tendency to influence or [is] capable of influencing, the decision of the decisionmaking body to which it is addressed." United States v. Gaudin , 515 U.S. 506, 510 (1995). "
(source: http://corporate.findlaw.com/litigation-disputes/how-to-avoid-going-to-jail-under-18-u-s-c-section-1001-for-lying.html )

So when completing the 4473 and you lie that you are the actual buyer, you commited a felony.

So what are the Democrats giving the legal gun owners for this "victory" they received?
True, now can you show me anyone who has been convicted of this. I made two open and shut cases where know gang members (named suspects) used false ID's and stolen credit cards to buy more than 60 hand guns to take back to CA for gang use and the US Attorney REFUSED to file on them!!!
__________________

An armed society is not always a polite society, but it is a free and safe society!
Self Defense is an absolute and natural right!
Keep your head down and your powder dry!

JimRau is offline  
kbd512 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 04:43 PM   #9
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 6,077
Liked 4886 Times on 2368 Posts
Likes Given: 1524

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flat Tire View Post
It is hard to prove a straw purchase, anyone can just change their mind. But if all gun sales had to have a UBC then the straw purchase game would come to an end. Why would anyone put a gun in his/her own name and give it to someone that can't pass a UBC.

What do they do to someone that sells a gun to someone and then that gun is involved in a crime ? In Idaho I can sell a gun to anyone. It lies more in who is in possession of that gun. As a seller I am not required to check if someone is a criminal. If you can't have guns because of your criminal record and you have guns then you are a criminal, why go back to jail for just having a gun in possession ? I don't have a problem with UBC's for all gun sales.
I have a big problem with the notion of UBC's when neither the Feds nor big city Chiefs put any effort into prosecuting people are turned down by the current system. According to the Milwaukee WI Chief of Police... "we don't waste resources on paper trails"... As though the 76,000 denied criminals just gave up on getting a gun?

Straw purchasers get a slap on the wrist, if anything, denied criminals are not prosecuted, violent gangs causing the majority of murders are never cracked down on because everyone, "including Cops and Politicians" are getting their piece of the Drug Pie...

... And your OK with giving this corrupt system MORE power to INFRINGE upon 2A?

With all due respect, I find your position to be the "simplistic" capitulation of someone NOT seeing the bigger picture. As someone else already said, the DEVIL is in the DETAILS and UBC's can only lead to registration.

Tack
__________________
Tackleberry1 is offline  
3
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 05:23 PM   #10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 61
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
I have a big problem with the notion of UBC's when neither the Feds nor big city Chiefs put any effort into prosecuting people are turned down by the current system. According to the Milwaukee WI Chief of Police... "we don't waste resources on paper trails"... As though the 76,000 denied criminals just gave up on getting a gun?

Straw purchasers get a slap on the wrist, if anything, denied criminals are not prosecuted, violent gangs causing the majority of murders are never cracked down on because everyone, "including Cops and Politicians" are getting their piece of the Drug Pie...

... And your OK with giving this corrupt system MORE power to INFRINGE upon 2A?

With all due respect, I find your position to be the "simplistic" capitulation of someone NOT seeing the bigger picture. As someone else already said, the DEVIL is in the DETAILS and UBC's can only lead to registration.

Tack
As there are millions of firearms that the goverment has no clue who has them how can UBC work? If someone sells me a firearm and the goverment don't know that person ever had it and we don't want to do a UBC whats to stop the sale? A favorite political statement "common sense" tells us the only way UBC can work is total registration. The political left and the media will push registration after UBC without it don't work.
__________________
gocritter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Straw Purchase? Inkster Legal and Activism 9 06-19-2012 01:20 PM
Is this a straw purchase? MichaelBarton General Handgun Discussion 20 02-01-2012 04:56 AM
"Straw"/gift purchases. TimL2952 General Handgun Discussion 53 07-26-2011 06:33 PM
Straw Law Issue / Problem NoWayOut Legal and Activism 13 07-16-2011 08:30 PM