Obama wants to use drones on Americans - Page 8
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism > Obama wants to use drones on Americans

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-08-2013, 05:36 PM   #71
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CA357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 19,871
Liked 1175 Times on 510 Posts
Likes Given: 2978

Default

BTW, what is the Social Security Administration going to do with seven million rounds of ammunition. Really? Social Security?

Maybe I am paranoid, but things seem awful fishy to me. It the SSA going to take on the Taliban? Oh yeah, that must be it. Armed accountants and bureaucrats advance to the front!

I have no love for Islam and its adherents. My concern is the unlimited power that the government has appropriated for itself, often over the objection of the Citizenry.

__________________
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”Samuel Adams
CA357 is offline  
4
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 05:45 PM   #72
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 6,165
Liked 5007 Times on 2428 Posts
Likes Given: 1601

Default

Chain

I too love my country and I DO NOT fear my Government...

Personally, I've no problem with identifying a traitor durring time of war and targeting that individual "on foreign soil". To me, the killing of this American born radical is no different that going after a former Military Officer who crossed enemy lines and is providing intel to enemy forces...

...BUT... ^^THIS^^ white paper is far too broad in scope and conveys powers upon the President that are in direct violation of the Constitution.

It does not mention "drones" or "foreign soil". It reads as though this President believes he has the authority to execute anyone, anywhere, without due process.

You may love and adore the "Imaculate Election" of our current POTUS. To me, he is just a man, as ambitious and flawed as any other man, and his power MUST be restrained and kept within it's constitutional limits "regardless of any threat to the country".

I too believe that our Nation will endure but it's not because of the "lemmings blind trust"... It's because us non lemmings demand adherence to the principles of our Constitution Republic and REJECT any "majorities" will to change it.

It would not matter if 99% of the population supported this policy. The purpose of our Constitution is to ENSURE that the will of the majority could never trample the rights of the minority.

Knowingly targeting and murdering an American Citizen anywhere IS a violation of that Americans Constitutional right whether you and I agree with it or not...

Tack


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainfire View Post
Tack, the difference in you and I is, I don't fear my government, I love my country, and I trust my fellow Americans to do the right thing.
I can accept it when my personal perferences are overuled by the majority of our society. I personally despised W. but I accepted his constitutional authority.

To make a, even a casual, comparison of the United States of America to Nazi Germany is absurd, and shows an ignorance of history. We live in a free and prosperous Nation with leaders that we, on a regular basis, select to make our laws. We still have seamless transistions of governments in election years. We can complain about the government, on a world-wide forum without fear that we will disappear into the fog and the night. I own more guns than my local police, I have worked hard all my life and have been rewarded with a good home and damn good life. My children were well educated and are living prosperous and healthy lives. There is not much more I ask for.

Many see famine in a land of plenty and tyranny in a land of freedom. Some folks live a life based on fear of what might be rather than an honest assement of what is. Fear is an evil thing, it tends to fog reality.

Are there things I don't agree with, or would like to see done differently? Hell yes. One thing a long life has taught me is tolerance and patience.

William Cullen Bryant said it well:

“So live that when thy summons comes to join
The innumerable caravan that moves
To that mysterious realm, where each shall take
His chamber in the silent halls of death,
Thou go not, like the quarry-slave at night,
Scourged to his dungeon, but, sustained and soothed
By an unfaltering trust, approach thy grave,
Like one who wraps the drapery of his couch
About him, and lies down to pleasant dreams.”
__________________
Tackleberry1 is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 05:56 PM   #73
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
davva360's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 408
Liked 165 Times on 97 Posts
Likes Given: 42

Default

It surprises me how so many people think this is no big deal.

It is one thing to take out someone sitting in Somalia with a bunch of known terrorists, I have no problem there. Its another to start flying them around the USA and it is very concerning to me that the language in the memo is so vague.

Basically the President can decide who to kill and who not to kill without due process. If that does not concern you then nothing will.

When the head of the FBI can not answer the question "Can the President kill a US Citizen on US Soil without a trial?" without going away to think about it, its a little scary to me.

__________________
davva360 is offline  
4
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 05:57 PM   #74
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
locutus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 10,254
Liked 6601 Times on 3677 Posts
Likes Given: 6248

Default

Tack,

I agree with you. The problem that I have is the anti-war isolationists that want to outlaw targeting terrorists in foreign countries, and want to disallow the use of unarmed drones or any other high tech equipment to secure our borders, chase criminals, etc.

locutus is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 06:41 PM   #75
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Chainfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,783
Liked 1652 Times on 986 Posts
Likes Given: 361

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA357 View Post
This has been an excellent discussion and I'm glad we're having it.

I neither cringe in fear nor am I paranoid. I am distrustful of our government. I am distrustful of their motives and their methods. There are scores of circumstances where we have been lied to, ignored and victimized by it.

Is there anyone here who can say that our civil liberties have not been curtailed by an overarching government? I'm talking in general, not just about the Second Amendment.

The EPA is killing entire industries. The IRS is killing small business and the common man. The FDA controls what medication can be marketed. Obamacare? Please....

One of my favorite government obfuscations is the phrase; "common sense gun laws". Who gets to decide that? Apparently the citizens don't.

This might be a good time to review the Declaration of Independence. See if it's relevant to today.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration.html

Heck yea! I can say I have not have any "liberties curtailed."

What liberties have you lost. Can you be specific?
__________________

"It is better to be too skeptical then too credulous"

Carl Sagan

Chainfire is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 07:57 PM   #76
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Vancouver,WA
Posts: 6,165
Liked 5007 Times on 2428 Posts
Likes Given: 1601

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus View Post
Tack,

I agree with you. The problem that I have is the anti-war isolationists that want to outlaw targeting terrorists in foreign countries, and want to disallow the use of unarmed drones or any other high tech equipment to secure our borders, chase criminals, etc.
Targeting enemies abroad is one thing buy it is a "slippery slope".

I'm sure they could also be used to great effect in securing our southern border and interdicting drug shipments on land and at sea...HOWEVER

The drug war has already been the excuse to curtail civil liberties and misappropriate billions of dollars for FAR TOO LONG.

Whether the "need" is fighting drugs OR terrorists is irrelevant. Using Ariel drones to keep tabs on American Citizens at home is simply a Bridge too far for me... Way to "1984".

I will never accept the Governments burning need to "protect me" morph into Unconstitutional violations of my privacy...

...and if I see a drone in my neighborhood... It better be out of 00 Buck Range! I'll take it down just for fun and see where that action leads.

Tack
__________________
Tackleberry1 is offline  
5
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 08:07 PM   #77
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BigByrd47119's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 3,401
Liked 1102 Times on 677 Posts
Likes Given: 2389

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA357 View Post
This has been an excellent discussion and I'm glad we're having it.

I neither cringe in fear nor am I paranoid. I am distrustful of our government. I am distrustful of their motives and their methods. There are scores of circumstances where we have been lied to, ignored and victimized by it.

Is there anyone here who can say that our civil liberties have not been curtailed by an overarching government? I'm talking in general, not just about the Second Amendment.

The EPA is killing entire industries. The IRS is killing small business and the common man. The FDA controls what medication can be marketed. Obamacare? Please....

One of my favorite government obfuscations is the phrase; "common sense gun laws". Who gets to decide that? Apparently the citizens don't.

This might be a good time to review the Declaration of Independence. See if it's relevant to today.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration.html
BLAM! Spot on sir!

Its also a good time to study the differences between a democracy and a representative republic!
__________________

“Let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it’s realized that our liberties and wealth are in jeopardy.”
---Ron Paul

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetuate it."
---Dr. Martin Luther King

"If you think we are free today, you know nothing about tyranny and even less about freedom."
---Tom Braun

BigByrd47119 is offline  
dog2000tj Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 08:28 PM   #78
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
orangello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19,155
Liked 5734 Times on 3360 Posts
Likes Given: 4877

Default

http://q13fox.com/2013/02/07/spd-on-use-of-drones/?hpt=us_bn10#axzz2K4clOFOB

Apparently the big Sac won't be having window-peeping drones for surveillance purposes. Good call, IMO, but maybe they could've kept one for bear patrols.
__________________

Dead Bears, the only good kind.

orangello is offline  
CA357 Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 06:58 PM   #79
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
CA357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 19,871
Liked 1175 Times on 510 Posts
Likes Given: 2978

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chainfire View Post
Heck yea! I can say I have not have any "liberties curtailed."

What liberties have you lost. Can you be specific?
I can no longer walk into Sears or the local hardware store and buy a gun and walk out with it.

We couldn't bring our potted plants with us when we moved to Oregon from CA.

I must be searched/X-rayed/wanded and detected before boarding a plane.

There are security cameras everywhere.

I must carry ID.

In Oregon I can't pump my own gas.

My gas cans must be "approved".

I must have a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

If I carry a knife, it can only be a certain length and in many places can't be "automatic"

California requires a "Handgun Safety Certificate" in order to purchase a handgun. Some other states have even worse requirements.

Even though there's a creek running through my property, I don't have "water rights" to it.

I must have a permit and an inspection to install a new wood stove in my home even though there was one here when we bought the place.

Said stove must be EPA certified. As such I can't buy and install a used older stove to save money.

I can think of more, but that should give you an idea. The argument that some of those things are to make me/us safe is irrelevant.
__________________
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”Samuel Adams
CA357 is offline  
4
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2013, 08:22 PM   #80
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Bladerunnerfury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 111
Liked 32 Times on 20 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CA357 View Post
I can no longer walk into Sears or the local hardware store and buy a gun and walk out with it.

We couldn't bring our potted plants with us when we moved to Oregon from CA.

I must be searched/X-rayed/wanded and detected before boarding a plane.

There are security cameras everywhere.

I must carry ID.

In Oregon I can't pump my own gas.

My gas cans must be "approved".

I must have a permit to carry a concealed weapon.

If I carry a knife, it can only be a certain length and in many places can't be "automatic"

California requires a "Handgun Safety Certificate" in order to purchase a handgun. Some other states have even worse requirements.

Even though there's a creek running through my property, I don't have "water rights" to it.

I must have a permit and an inspection to install a new wood stove in my home even though there was one here when we bought the place.

Said stove must be EPA certified. As such I can't buy and install a used older stove to save money.

I can think of more, but that should give you an idea. The argument that some of those things are to make me/us safe is irrelevant.
You sir are right!! In my 17 years I been alive this place has gotten exponentially worse! Now don't get me wrong we do have it pretty good compared to North Korea... for now.
__________________
Bladerunnerfury is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Drones - coming soon to a highway near you. orangello Conspiracy 79 02-21-2013 08:14 PM
FBI Director: I Have to Check to See If Obama Has the Right to Kill Americans On U.S. Bigcountry02 Politics, Religion and Controversy 17 01-27-2013 07:07 PM
Drones looking at us? Coming soon it looks like. Jim1611 Politics, Religion and Controversy 49 05-17-2012 05:54 PM
should unmanned drones be used by law enforcement downsouth The Club House 48 12-16-2011 04:45 AM
Video of Houston Police secret aerial drones opaww Politics, Religion and Controversy 53 01-18-2010 07:00 PM