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Old 05-28-2010, 09:23 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by brandy
It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others have been tried.


Gentlemen, we are NOT a democracy, we are a Republic.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:33 PM   #32
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"I have seen 68 you may not".

You certainly won't retain your rights if you allow your support to be fragmented by extremists who are easy targets for
Holder's "jack booted thugs."

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government, except all the others have been tried.

The same may be said of the NRA.
Brandy-I've never disclosed my age on this forum.

Its pretty patronizing to assert an age=wisdom attitude and not know the age of the person your addressing.

Further,our government isnt a 'democracy'.

It is a Constitutional Republic with Democratic process.

The difference is huge.
Allow me to explain-

In a pure democracy,you literally have one group,the majority,deciding the rules.It doesn't matter what the majority wants-its what is 'law'.The term 'majority rules' comes to mind when discussing this subject.
So does the term 'mob rule'.
And if the mob decides that your property rights violate their will to have a 'green earth' or 'social justice' guess what?

No more property rights for you.

Is there any wonder why we have been mislead by liberals and progressives into calling our government a 'democracy'?

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
John Adams



A Constitutional Republic with Democratic process on the other hand,is one where there is a supreme law -the Constitution- that limits the majority in its legislation and action.
Here,we have lawful checks on how far the majority opinion can go,and these checks serve to limit the infringement on the rights of the minority in the democratic process.

"The true foundation of republican government is the equal right of every citizen in his person and property and in their management."
Thomas Jefferson

Now,people like myself who are actively attempting to restore the republic may be called 'extremists' because we want the ability of the mob restrained by Constitutional law,we want the government limited to protect the rights of all people from being violated by a majority that could utilize a large powerful government to force the will of a majority on all people.

If it makes me an extremist to also insist that the Second Amendment be fully obeyed,and I am an extremist because I believe some of the smaller gun rights groups more fully express my concerns than the NRA-than so be it.

According to the current government,our Founders were extremists-and so is anyone who is rallying for the Republic.

Were 'evil hatemongers' and 'teabaggers'.

But were in good company-along with men like George Washington,Samuel Adams,Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson-men who founded this Republic.

I will lose no sleep being called an 'extremist' or even a 'criminal' or 'terrorist' by a government that refuses to abide within its own legal framework,just as I will lose no sleep being called the same by someone who fails to understand the reasons why I choose to support a no-compromise advocate of my Second Amendment rights over a group that chooses to represent itself by endorsing big government nanny state progressives the likes of Harry Reid.
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Old 05-30-2010, 04:24 AM   #33
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Josh, lets not forget the rest of the 57 gentlemen who signed the Declaration of Independence and not just the famous one, and how about we include all the men and women who have fought our battles, some buried in foreign lands, others never found and all the wounded who will go through live, living a little less. May God Bless them one and all. Take a minute of your life daily to pray and dedicate it to all the veterans who have made this such a great land.

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Old 05-30-2010, 06:21 AM   #34
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Josh, lets not forget the rest of the 57 gentlemen who signed the Declaration of Independence and not just the famous one, and how about we include all the men and women who have fought our battles, some buried in foreign lands, others never found and all the wounded who will go through live, living a little less. May God Bless them one and all. Take a minute of your life daily to pray and dedicate it to all the veterans who have made this such a great land.
One of the better posts I've seen in some time....
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Old 05-30-2010, 06:40 AM   #35
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Las Vegas, Harry Reid, large shooting range.

Where does Front Site fit into all of this?
How many large shooting ranges can Las Vegas support?

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Old 05-30-2010, 10:35 AM   #36
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Those who seek power at the cost of our freedoms come in many disguises-Democrat, Republican, trade unionist, lobbyist (such as the NRA), etc. These are people who have either forgotten that their purpose is supposed to represent the people who chose them, or they had another agenda altogether. The name for this phenomenon is Tyranny.

The NRA is showing signs of falling prey to the seduction of power that is endemic in Washington (as in any other seat of government).

BUT
the NRA is still on our side of the battle to ensure the continuation of the 2nd Amendment. Well, mostly! It is up to us as members of the NRA to pressure them to remember why they are there--or replace them. The same as we need to do with our politicians (though that seems to be mostly "replace").

Now is not the time to throw them out! But it is time for us to get busy. The seems to be a movement building amongst the citizenry to put this kind of pressure on the politicians. It is called by several names including the Tea Party movement. Whether it is Washington, our various state capitals, or the NRA we need to get busy to ensure that all our rights as defined in the Constitution continue to exist and not fall prey to Tyranny.

We can't be effective if we are not citizens, or members. So stay in the NRA and let them know what WE think!

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Old 05-31-2010, 04:09 AM   #37
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So. If not the NRA, what's your plan B? SAF? GOA? They've all got their warts. The way I see it, the NRA is doing MOST of the heavy lifting on the gun rights front. Do they pimp themselves out for money? Hell yeah. They're career politicians just like the guys they work with. Do I like it? Not so much, but I haven't seen any better suggestions.
2nd Free Fall...

The NRA is a "SINGLE ISSUE" organization, PERIOD. Reed could be killing babies on the weekend, "and probably is", but as long as his voting record on 2A issues is better than his opponents, he'll continue to get their support.

Just about every respondent to this OP needs to take a breath. We all despise Reed but 1 article in AHG is no reason to stop supporting the ONE organization that matters in DC when it comes to GUN RIGHTS.

Anyone here remember 1994? We've come a long way in the right direction since then and MOST if not ALL of that progress is due to Senators and Congressmen FEARING the NRA.

GROW UP.

TACK
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:40 PM   #38
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Anyone here remember 1994? We've come a long way in the right direction since then and MOST if not ALL of that progress is due to Senators and Congressmen FEARING the NRA.

I'd rather they feared the consequences of being the criminal shysters that they are.

They shouldnt fear the NRA.

They should fear Americans 'growing up' from dependency on the nanny state into the full recognition that it is Americans and the Supreme Law that runs this land.

I remember 1994.

I remember the assault on Liberty that was being perpetrated.

I remember the difference in positions between gun lobby groups too.

Seems to be the same difference today,with people in denial about the reality that there is a group of big government tyrants looking to take any opportunity to wrench away our liberty for any pretext whatsoever.

Some of them used to beg and whimper about their 'sporting heritage' while others understand that the Second isnt about hunting deer-its about maintaining a balance of arms to prevent a monopoly of force being used to tyrannize the people.

Some speak as if they are subjects to whatever 'law' comes next,being that they are 'law abiding'.

Now they think its ok that the government issues us permission to bear arms in the form of carry licenses,taxes us to determine who may own modern military weapons,dictates to us what we can and cant own, and demands we ask permission to buy arms with background checks,the paperwork of which forms a de-facto registration scheme.

Others talk of the actual meaning of the Second Amendment with an understanding that any 'law' that is in direct contradiction to the Second is in fact illegal and represents the tyranny of blatant violation of inalienable rights.

There are those that believe that you can somehow 'lose' your rights.They find this acceptable and believe that there is a good cause for certain kinds of 'government regulation'-such as keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.
This approach assumes that government has the authority to issue rights,because if they can take them away-it then gives them the opposite power.
This is such a detrimental and erroneous fallacy that it places every single citizens' freedoms and even their very lives in grave jeopardy.

I strongly disagree with this,first of all because inalienable rights can't be 'lost',or taken away.

Inalienable rights are inalienable.

This thinking doesn't protect us from criminals,it makes our government into a criminal conspiracy that is in violation of the very laws that frame it.

It is the difference between a government restrained by law to recognize and obey the authority of individual liberty,to a government that recognizes none but its own authority,and excersizes its overwhelming use of force -a mis-balance of power achieved by 'gun control'- to enforce obedience to its will.

Secondly,the only thing limiting the excersize of inalienable rights is the limits placed on them by the rights of others.NOT government.
there was never any intention whatsoever that our government be granted the authority to supersede this natural state of liberty-in fact,every effort has been made to guard against such tyranny,in both the legacy and laws given to us by our Founding Generation and the history of this nation.

Now we have 'gun control' and government mandated health care.

Because were compromising with those of an ideology of stupidity and big government tyranny.

There can be no compromise of inalienable rights.

Reid is a compromiser-even in respect to the main focus of the NRA,that being the preservation of the Second Amendment.

Even when we ignore his support for other nanny state outrages-hes still very bad news.

NRA disgraces itself in voicing support for him.

That is-unless NRA believes that our God Given inalienable rights are properly subjected to government regulation and control?

As to how far we've come since 1994-well,I had my 'awakening' as a Patriot in 1994,as I watched our government snipe mothers holding their infants and burn churches full of children to the ground.

Since then I've come along way personally,and I simply cant bring myself to compromise on any level in any way,shape,or form with politicians or other people who simply dont understand the meaning of liberty,choosing instead to subjugate their fellow citizens to violations of inalienable rights because they deem it 'reasonable'.

Anyone who compromises with others' rights will soon find the yoke on their own neck.

Just look at Lautenburg and Holders already multiple attempts to make the the secret watch lists a part of the 'prohibited possessor' list found in the Nazi inspired GCA68.
Look at them up there screaming for more 'gun control' every time Comrade Calderon of Mexico says something.
Look at them all clapping.

Was Harry Reid clapping too?

How long before government has total control over every aspect of your once inalienable rights?

If NRA took on a total policy of non-compromise I'd join them the very moment they did.

But sometimes it seems that NRA is too busy appeasing the devil for a few more hours of enjoying the fruits of selling their souls before Judgment Day.

We haven't come all that far since 1994.

We still have a big government that relishes in defining its own limitations,fueled by people crying about how 'there should be a law' for this and 'there should be a law' for that and how 'governments gotta do something' as we bicker among ourselves as to just what those limitations are.Calling people who challenge its blatant illegitimate authority 'hatemongers' and 'right wing terrorists'.

The limitations are in the Constitution.

With a unanimous voice-we must demand obedience to it.

"The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are the constitutional rights secure."
Albert Einstein

"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it."
Judge Learned Hand
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:45 PM   #39
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Josh, lets not forget the rest of the 57 gentlemen who signed the Declaration of Independence and not just the famous one, and how about we include all the men and women who have fought our battles, some buried in foreign lands, others never found and all the wounded who will go through live, living a little less. May God Bless them one and all. Take a minute of your life daily to pray and dedicate it to all the veterans who have made this such a great land.
Like my grandad,who is buried in Punchbowl in Hawaii?

He served two tours in 'Nam and was awarded the Bronze Star.

I didnt know there was just one 'famous' Founder-but give the progressives enough time and there will be no such thing as 'Founders'-
Unless your talking about Che Guevara,Mao Zedong or Karl Marx.

I quote all sorts of people.I have even been known to quote my enemies.

Anything to make people THINK.
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Old 06-01-2010, 07:56 PM   #40
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As it stands right now, the Federal elected officials DO fear US. Why else would they try to infringe on the 2nd Amendment? Their fear for us is still small compared to the fear the NRA puts in them. The NRA wields power that is more imminent. The fear of losing their jobs because of the lack of support from the NRA.

The NRA is US. They are the 800 lb gorilla that we hold over Congress. The 800 lb gorilla is not always completely under our control, but generally speaking, does our bidding. They may not be perfect, they just ARE. They may not do EXACTLY what you or I want everytime on every issue, but they have done a better than average job thus far (IMHO). Just like the Democratic process, if you are not completely satisfied with the NRA, VOTE! You have to be a member to vote. Join, vote and let your voice be heard. Or join a similar group, vote and have them speak for you. Let's face it. Congress does not listen to the individual voter anymore. You can send letters and e-mails til your finger cramp up and they do not care one iota about your (or my) opinion. Collectively, they care.

We must hang together, or we will certainly hang separately.

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