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Old 12-31-2012, 01:07 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by manta

The last time i looked at my passport i was a citizen. Not subject. Example of a passport notice citizen not subject.
And the last time I read the 2nd amendment the words "shall not be infringed" were written there

There is no other way to say It simpler.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:09 PM   #92
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I'm not trying to get into a heated debate with a fellow 2nd Enthusiast...but you should look into Constitutional law, lots of people confuse how it works.

While I don't like it, or agree with it, registration is not, by Constitutional law, a violation of the 2nd Amendment.

To me or you, it does, but as far as the laws have been allowed to be manipulated, it doesn't.

The citizens of this nation long ago traded in freedom for security, rights for welfare.

People like us can just hope to hold onto what little remains, but fighting an already imposed registration on a state level is a losing battle.

Our victory lies in a fight against federal registration and a national database. If we keep it at the State Level, it's much easier to fight down. At a Federal Level - Good luck, once it's in, it's in.

And the Constitution only protects you from the Federal Government all encompassing. Only when parts or whole amendments have been decided to be "incorporated to the states" by the SCOTUS, do they protect you from the State, via the 10th Amendment. States Rights.
You obvious don't know the 'law'! I have been in LE for 40+ years and I can tell you that ALL the court decisions pertaining to the 'individual rights' garnered from the 'Bill of Rights' apply to ALL levels of government. If you don't believe me then tell me why we have to read the Miranda Rights to suspects we arrest on city and state charges, and why we have to adhere to the 4th Amendment while obtaining warrants for state charges, just to show a FEW examples.
The Bill of Rights, including the 2nd Amendment, where placed in the Constitution to:
1. Protect the Individual.
2. From the Government Power at ALL levels of government, city (as shown by the Heller Decision), county, state, and Federal laws.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:53 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by JimRau

You obvious don't know the 'law'! I have been in LE for 40+ years and I can tell you that ALL the court decisions pertaining to the 'individual rights' garnered from the 'Bill of Rights' apply to ALL levels of government. If you don't believe me then tell me why we have to read the Miranda Rights to suspects we arrest on city and state charges, and why we have to adhere to the 4th Amendment while obtaining warrants for state charges, just to show a FEW examples.
The Bill of Rights, including the 2nd Amendment, where placed in the Constitution to:
1. Protect the Individual.
2. From the Government Power at ALL levels of government, city (as shown by the Heller Decision), county, state, and Federal laws.
The reason that the 4th and 5th amendment rights are applied at the state and local level is twofold. One is, as stated, incorporation by SCOTUS; the other is that any legal case can move from a local jurisdiction through to the Federal Courts.

The Court has to date not specifically incorporated the 2A , this is how places like Chicago, New York and Philadelphia...not to mention NJ,IL,MD and HI can make it illegal or difficult to "keep and bear arms."'MacDonald and Heller did establish the 2A as an individual right but came up short on incorporation. There is no doubt that the Court will be seeing this issue on a grander scale in the near future and hopefully they will put this issue to bed once and for all and incorporate the 2A.
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"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington

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Old 12-31-2012, 03:05 PM   #94
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Hopefully they will see such a case BEFORE Obama appoints any more gun grabbers. The last vote on such a subject was 5-4 in our favor. Chances are good that Obama will be able to appoint 1 to 3 more justices. THAT is the biggest risk to American freedom!!!

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Old 12-31-2012, 03:38 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRau

You obvious don't know the 'law'! I have been in LE for 40+ years and I can tell you that ALL the court decisions pertaining to the 'individual rights' garnered from the 'Bill of Rights' apply to ALL levels of government. If you don't believe me then tell me why we have to read the Miranda Rights to suspects we arrest on city and state charges, and why we have to adhere to the 4th Amendment while obtaining warrants for state charges, just to show a FEW examples.
The Bill of Rights, including the 2nd Amendment, where placed in the Constitution to:
1. Protect the Individual.
2. From the Government Power at ALL levels of government, city (as shown by the Heller Decision), county, state, and Federal laws.
Thank you for serving in LE first off

But please realize constitutional law is different. It operates much differently than the law you enforce

I'm not saying I like it or agree with it

I'm saying we have elected politicians that have allowed the creation of these loopholes and now were stuck with it
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:50 PM   #96
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BTW, as far as I can tell, the Seventh Circuit court decision gave Illinois 180 days (from Dec 11 2012) to establish some kind of concealed carry law. By my calendar, that makes CC-day Jun 9 2013. Now 160 days and counting!

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Old 12-31-2012, 06:01 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Balota
BTW, as far as I can tell, the Seventh Circuit court decision gave Illinois 180 days (from Dec 11 2012) to establish some kind of concealed carry law. By my calendar, that makes CC-day Jun 9 2013. Now 160 days and counting!
Damn straight I'm on my phone or I'd "like" that

I'm think in going to make tshirts
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:17 PM   #98
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The last time i looked at my passport i was a citizen. Not subject. Example of a passport notice citizen not subject.
Yep...they let you think your a citizen...at least until you try to buy a gun...

Note: An armed man is a Citizen, a disarmed man is a Subject

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Old 12-31-2012, 11:36 PM   #99
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Yep...they let you think your a citizen...at least until you try to buy a gun...
I have plenty of guns. And can get more if i want. Example of someone else that's living in the UK and what firearms he has.


Example. One 51-year-old male owns 109 firearms – including an ex-PSNI Personal Protection Weapon.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:46 PM   #100
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I have plenty of guns. And can get more if i want. Example of someone else that's living in the UK and what firearms he has.


Example. One 51-year-old male owns 109 firearms – including an ex-PSNI Personal Protection Weapon.
...and how many are registered?

...and where are they kept?
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