[CA357]

My final words on the subject.

[therewolf]

I really think the DNC needs to make Eric Holder the

posterboy-oops!- posterMAN for " Transparency in

Government".

...talk about" undercover brother".

[Balota]

Originally Posted by Old_Crow

It's nice and convenient to blame Obama for Fast and Furious. But so far, he had no knowledge of fast and furious. For all we know fast and furious could have been cooked up by the republicans to embarrass Obama. We may never know what the real motive behind fast and furious might have been.

I can tell you how fast and furious is going to end up. Some underlings are going to take the blame for fast and furious. Their grandchildren will live very well for their sacrifice. Then fast and furious will be swept under the rug like weed ashes in a frat house.

I trust a crack head on the corner more than I trust Obama or Romney, all three are evil. The only difference is the crackhead can't see past $60 or whatever it costs to buy enough crack to catch a buzz.

You have got to be kidding. Obama had no knowledge of F&F. Right. Let's just pretend that was true when F&F hit the news. It certainly was not true when Obama used an executive order to tell Congress to go to hell with their subpoena. Obama knew all about it by then. If the documents that are being demanded are classified, there are Congressional leaders of important committees who have such clearances and could review them. Obama is stonewalling because those documents would incriminate HIM as well as Holder.

We can only hope that (a) Romney wins, (b) F&F gets investigated with full access to the essential documents, and (c) parties responsible (should be Obama and Holder as a minimum) are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Arguably, what they did could be treason. Fullest extent.

[Old_Crow]

Originally Posted by Balota

You have got to be kidding. Obama had no knowledge of F&F. Right. Let's just pretend that was true when F&F hit the news. It certainly was not true when Obama used an executive order to tell Congress to go to hell with their subpoena. Obama knew all about it by then. If the documents that are being demanded are classified, there are Congressional leaders of important committees who have such clearances and could review them. Obama is stonewalling because those documents would incriminate HIM as well as Holder.

We can only hope that (a) Romney wins, (b) F&F gets investigated with full access to the essential documents, and (c) parties responsible (should be Obama and Holder as a minimum) are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Arguably, what they did could be treason. Fullest extent.

What ever!

[bkt]

Originally Posted by Old_Crow

It's nice and convenient to blame Obama for Fast and Furious. But so far, he had no knowledge of fast and furious.

We know Holder knew about it. If Obama didn't know what his subordinate was doing, particularly when it involves weapons being transported to another country without that nation's leaders knowing about it, there's a problem.

Originally Posted by Old_Crow

For all we know fast and furious could have been cooked up by the republicans to embarrass Obama.

I'm guessing by that statement that you're not keeping up with F&F too much. There's a huge amount of evidence provided by Holder and his people that corroborates what the whistle-blowers have said.

You don't get held in contempt of Congress for frivolous reasons.

Originally Posted by Old_Crow

We may never know what the real motive behind fast and furious might have been.

That's very possible. But we know for certain it had nothing to do with tracking down drug cartel BGs, and Issa has emails between people discussing how to use the violence from F&F as a precedent for tougher gun legislation in the US. That, combined with the shrill commentary by Hillary and others back in 2009/2010 lying about the number of guns recovered in Mexico being mostly from the US, and the ATF trying to require gun stores in border states to make a special report of anyone buying more than one long gun a week, all suggest the real motive is tougher gun laws.

Originally Posted by Old_Crow

I can tell you how fast and furious is going to end up. Some underlings are going to take the blame for fast and furious. Their grandchildren will live very well for their sacrifice. Then fast and furious will be swept under the rug like weed ashes in a frat house.

Unfortunately, you're probably right.

[Old_Crow]

@BKT I really don't care what you think. I am so tired of hearing about F&F that I could puke. So, no, I am not keeping up with it. Go pick on someone else.

The only news sources that are reporting F&F have about the same reputation as Nancy Grace. Unless you have connections in the CIA you know no more about F&F than the mule in my barn. There is no way to do any fact checking. The documents have been sealed. Right or wrong Obama made sure all we could do is guess. He might actually be protecting the families of the agents involved in F&F. The cartels see killing a Federal agents family in the same light as we do shooting a coyote.

[bkt]

Originally Posted by Old_Crow

@BKT I really don't care what you think. I am so tired of hearing about F&F that I could puke. So, no, I am not keeping up with it. Go pick on someone else.

The only news sources that are reporting F&F have about the same reputation as Nancy Grace. Unless you have connections in the CIA you know no more about F&F than the mule in my barn. There is no way to do any fact checking. The documents have been sealed. Right or wrong Obama made sure all we could do is guess. He might actually be protecting the families of the agents involved in F&F. The cartels see killing a Federal agents family in the same light as we do shooting a coyote.

Respectfully, I have not gotten any information from the mainstream news media on this subject because they are working overtime to squelch it.

David Codrea's Gun Rights Examiner and Mike Vanderboegh's Sipsey Street Irregulars are two blogs that broke the story well over a year ago. Both David and Mike have contacts within the ATF, and it was they who connected the whistle-blowers to Grassley and Issa. The information they have amassed and the leg-work they have done dwarfs anything so-called "professional" journalists have done. Both of these gentlemen have testified before congress on the matter.

We can't prove who knew what when unless we see some proof. What Issa has been trying to do is get documentation from the DoJ that might help shine a light on things. That Obama nixed that effort is not condemning in and of itself but it is suspicious.

If you're not familiar with what has been discovered so far and you wish to remain that way, that's fine. But don't make an assertion that is unprovable (you can't prove a negative) and don't jump on people who might have read a little more than you have on the subject.

[Old_Crow]

I don't try to put words in your mouth. If my opinion offends you so you know where the ban button is at. I don't pick your posts apart whether I agree or disagree. All I see is someone who is drunk on a tiny bit of power and is now abusing it. You are clearly not interested in civil discourse. Whatever is on your mind just go on and do it. My life will not change and neither will yours.

[Colby]

Originally Posted by Old_Crow

The only reason I don't see Obama as a threat he lacks the political skills to accomplish anything on his agenda.
.

So you are saying OB is naive and not politically savvy.
Yet he passed his favorite massive bill, Obamacare. Moved massive money -approaching a trillion dollars - from Medicare to pay for Obamacare, passed two rounds of Massive spending programs increasing the national debt more than at anytime in the country's history, shut down oil production in the Gulf, stopped the Canadian pipeline to the US. And he can't get things that he wants passed - you say??
He's got nearly 50% of the population not paying any tax at all - who do you think those people are going to vote for??
His personal background is filled with lifelong friends and advisors who are thugs, criminals, terrorists, racist hate preachers and jailbirds.
And he has spent millions carefully covering the secret of his actual birthplace. Why would someone work so at not revealing something unless there was something that he did not want revealed? He just throws snide jokes at the questions.

And you are saying he is naive and politically not savvy enough to get his agenda through? Where is your head? Look at what he has already done!

The country is on the verge of unsustainable debt - which can ruin all of our futures with massive economic disruptions - as in the other liberal socialist states gone bad - Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, ... rioting in the streets there!
What are you thinking, man! ........ Or not thinking!!

[PrimePorkchop]

Originally Posted by Old_Crow

I don't try to put words in your mouth. If my opinion offends you so you know where the ban button is at. I don't pick your posts apart whether I agree or disagree. All I see is someone who is drunk on a tiny bit of power and is now abusing it. You are clearly not interested in civil discourse. Whatever is on your mind just go on and do it. My life will not change and neither will yours.

Soooooo what youre saying is "leave me to my opinions and don't prove to me where im wrong"

The Internet is the wrong place for an attitude like that, I'm afraid. If you want to post your opinions in a political forum, expect people to disagree

If you post an opinion that you know little about, expect to be proven wrong

You speak of civil discourse but then make a post like that... Wow

And the "drunken mod on a power trip thing". ... Really? Did you really just do that???