Modified Gun Leading To Prosecution - Page 3
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:06 PM   #21
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Modified guns, and ATF.
Wife and kid killed in standoffs.

"The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms first became aware of Weaver in July 1986 when he was introduced to an ATF informant at a meeting of the Aryan Nations. Weaver had been invited by Frank Kumnick, who was the original target of the ATF investigation. It was Weaver's first attendance. Over the next three years, Weaver and the informant met several times.[7] In October 1989, the ATF claimed that Weaver sold the informant two sawed-off shotguns, with the overall length of the guns shorter than the legal limit set by federal law."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge
Got it. Thanks.

I can see converting the firearm to be something illegal attracting the attention of law enforcement. What I don't see is a prosecution based solely on a trigger job unless the trigger was modified for full auto.

Sure, the fact that you put a set of lighter springs in a revolver will come out at trial, but it's only a brush stroke in the bigger picture they will try to paint. When it's all added together it may or may not be the turning point for the entire trial, but it's doubtful if your defense is worth a hoot. You could always argue that you did it for better trigger control to reduce the risk to bystanders. That may fly, or it may not, but you have to try.
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:16 PM   #22
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Justified self defense cannot be prosecuted in civil court in wisconsin. In wisconsin if a business posts no guns they are civilly liable for any and all damages a goblin does on the premises as the business chose to assume all risk by preventing your right to self defense.

The hospital I work at took down their no firearms sign shortly after we passed ccw here.
That's pretty unusual I think. The hospitals near me have definite No Gun policies (except for police). Their concern could be a patient on oxygen having oxygen soaked clothing. Such a garment is very easily ignited. Muzzle flash could do it just as easily as a cigarette. What's crazy is the number of heavy smokers in the hospital for a breathing problem, on oxygen, dragging their roll-around O2 bottle out front for their smoke breaks! It could also be a religious thing (St. John's or St. Francis') for example.
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:47 PM   #23
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That's pretty unusual I think. The hospitals near me have definite No Gun policies (except for police). Their concern could be a patient on oxygen having oxygen soaked clothing. Such a garment is very easily ignited. Muzzle flash could do it just as easily as a cigarette. What's crazy is the number of heavy smokers in the hospital for a breathing problem, on oxygen, dragging their roll-around O2 bottle out front for their smoke breaks! It could also be a religious thing (St. John's or St. Francis') for example.
Its because the powers that be that run actually looked at the law here in wisconsin. The signs add liability no sign reduces it. Purely a business decision based on wisconsin law. Hospitals and schools are already proscribed by federal law. They see no need to increase liability risk.
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:07 PM   #24
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Their concern could be a patient on oxygen having oxygen soaked clothing. Such a garment is very easily ignited. Muzzle flash could do it just as easily as a cigarette.
Muzzle flash igniting oxygen is not what it's about. Nor is the religion. It is because the place is by definition for sick people and their families. Mental conditions of all sorts, including chemical dependence; unpredictable bursts of anger or desperation in borderline personalities; a lot of negative emotions caused by frustration.

The hospital wants people to feel safe visiting, or staying in the hospital, like not thinking whether this or that odd looking person is packing and ready to melt down. Ever been to an ED on a Saturday night? The doors are open to all people. Not much is asked of them in the (still) world's best healthcare system. Saying please leave your weapons behind is absolutely reasonable. Do you want your doctor or nurse to be watching her back while taking care of you? Come on guys, button up, mentally.
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Old 11-12-2013, 02:27 PM   #25
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It is indeed possible for a fatal defensive shot that is ruled by the police to be a justified shooting to be prosecuted anyway. That is what happened to George Zimmerman when the "community" raised Cain and pressured the state into prosecuting him anyway. He was lucky that they couldn't prove their case. Also, there are actually some jurors who believe it is their solemn duty to find a defendant guilty, no matter what the evidence says. There were a few of them on Zimmerman's jury, but they were convinced to vote not guilty by the other jurors.
Although he was not accused of modifying his gun, if he had, it would have probably been brought up, as the incompetent prosecutors would have grasped at any straw to try to influence the jury.

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Old 11-12-2013, 02:38 PM   #26
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Its because the powers that be that run actually looked at the law here in wisconsin. The signs add liability no sign reduces it. Purely a business decision based on wisconsin law. Hospitals and schools are already proscribed by federal law. They see no need to increase liability risk.
John, which federal law says no carry at hospitals?
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:08 PM   #27
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A "good shoot" is a "good shoot"! PERIOD!

I'm fairly certain George Zimmerman finds absolutely no comfort in that theory.
http://americanhandgunner.com/lessons-from-the-zimmerman-case/

HOWEVER, they will use ANY and ALL modifications against you in a civil case
In civil court, should it come to that, anything can be called into question. Did you beat someone up in High School? Ever been drunk & disorderly? Ever had the cops called to you house for anything, ever at any time? Gun Mods? Expect it.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:19 PM   #28
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In civil court, should it come to that, anything can be called into question. Did you beat someone up in High School? Ever been drunk & disorderly? Ever had the cops called to you house for anything, ever at any time? Gun Mods? Expect it.
Not just civil court. Any court. They will use every shred of information they can to get you behind bars or paying out on a lawsuit. Just like your defense attorney will use every shred of evidence he can to exonerate you. So carry something that's comfortable that way you can survive to appear in court for defending yourself. Carry a gun and ammo that you are confident with. Legally mod what you need to mod and don't worry about the rest of it.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:24 PM   #29
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That's pretty unusual I think. The hospitals near me have definite No Gun policies (except for police). Their concern could be a patient on oxygen having oxygen soaked clothing. Such a garment is very easily ignited. Muzzle flash could do it just as easily as a cigarette. What's crazy is the number of heavy smokers in the hospital for a breathing problem, on oxygen, dragging their roll-around O2 bottle out front for their smoke breaks! It could also be a religious thing (St. John's or St. Francis') for example.
In the past 10 years or so, any hospital I've worked at or visited had a "no smoking on campus" policy. The employees can't even smoke on campus. Where I work, some do smoke but they must punch out and leave campus. No longer do the patients go out for a smoke break. If necessary, they are given nicotine patches.

Mercator has it right. A hospital should be a 'safe zone' for employees and patients. When I worked in a "rougher neighborhood" hospital. When gang shootings or domestic violence shootings came in, there were armed police at entrances to the ER, Surgery and the patients rooms to prevent any further violence towards that patient.

I remember working my ass off in blood bank one day. A woman came in who was shot several times by her man.....in front of her 5 year old child. All I did all day was crossmatch packed cells, plasma, platelets, etc. for this poor victim. When I brought units to Surgery for her, the doors were locked (I can usually walk in to where the nurses station is but not the actual surgery rooms) and I had to identify myself and show my photo ID name badge through the window. At the very end of my shift, the patient was out of surgery and in ICU. I was bringing another unit of packed cells to ICU for this patient. I was at the nurses station getting ready to do our paperwork and double checks when the nurse said, "Wait a minute" and was watching the patient's heart monitor at the desk. She whispered to me, "The patient is coding". We could see into the patients room where the surgeon and patient's family were with the patient. We paused to get further instruction such as "Get us 10 more units of blood" or whatever. After a brief moment, we heard the family begin to wail and cry. I knew the doctor had told them he did all he could do, the patient's injuries were too severe to maintain life. I took the unit I had in my hand back to the blood bank and cried like a baby for about 20 minutes. I wanted so badly for this woman to survive.

I felt a little justice a year or so later. The idiot husband, who was dumber than a box of rocks, decided to defend himself. He hand picked the jury himself and here's an article. This was actually his closing statement.
‘Please, find me not guilty of the crimes I have committed.' It even made it on to the Jay Leno funny headlines. Here is a link.

http://www.daily-chronicle.com/2005/12/23/jury-finds-spates-guilty-of-murderdefendant-makes-plea-in-closing-please-find-me-not-guilty-of-the-crimes-i-have-committed/aqriqsz/news01.txt

THIS is why they don't allow guns in hospitals.
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Old 11-12-2013, 03:24 PM   #30
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John, which federal law says no carry at hospitals?
Sorry I mistyped. I meant to say state. I was in a hurry and didn't read for content. Wisconsin ccw says hospital school and events are proscribed without having to post. Posting even when proscribed opens the door to civil liability according to our law guys so we don't put up signs. The business is doing it for financial reasons of possible liability in court which is what businesses should be concerned about as corporations exist to make money.

I don't believe any area should be off limits to ccw. Not having armed citizens increases the danger factor by many times. Hospitals and Schools are often areas that are targeted by nuts for violence. Disarming people so its convienent for the goblins is so far beyound stupid it needs its own word to describe the insanity of gun free zones.

Bad things will happen and words on a sign or some paper in a law book have never stopped evil and never will.
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