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Old 04-26-2012, 04:33 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by partdeux View Post
That has been ruled in several courts, and IRC even SCOTUS. LEO are NOT required to respond.
Really? Which SJC case states that?

Castle Rock v. Gonzales, No. 04-278 - SCOTUS ruled that police have "no duty to protect the individual".

I've found information that police off duty don't have a duty to act/respond unless it is the department's policy, or a city/county ordinance.

I've found that there is no SJC ruling that there be a National Standard for police to respond to a call.

Most of the "duties" of the police are in the oath they took, not in the state/fed laws or city/county ordinances.
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Old 04-26-2012, 05:24 AM   #52
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Some LEO's have to be slapped down in court, others are willing to learn.

Co-Worker has an LEO brother that said if someone open carried in his city, they would be thrown down, cuffed, and hauled off to jail. Bravado? IDK. But, I made a phone call and a call went to the city's Chief and an interesting chat took place. They now recognize the legality of OC. That's one way to deal with it. But, what if that officer had encountered an OC and followed through with his threat? MI State Supreme court just ruled a couple of days ago that a citizen has the legal right to resist and unlawful arrest. Seems to me, the LEO community needs to be a lot more cautious and understand the states laws.

I said earlier this smelled like a set up. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. In any case, we will have a court case that I expect will further define RAS in the state.

There's a quote incorrectly attributed to Hitler, but in reality it's not far off from his beliefs... about the streets being safer and the police more efficient. Gestapo became masters at checking peoples "papers".
if that officer had followed through with his threat, more than likely after having to deal with his own criminal charges and the civil lawsuit that would occur, finding suitable employment in law enforcement would in the future would be unobtainable. plus the lawsuits against the city or county for allowing it to happen. yes the LEO need to know the law when it comes to legal open carry.

i might be mistaken, but if a LEO asks for your ID, then you are required by law to show it. this is the reason that some states issue state ID's even for people who don't drive and don't or can't have a DL. there are many cities where there is public transit and people don't even own cars, so they don't even have a DL because of this fact. i think had he given his ID, the situation might have gone differently. maybe not, but it would look a lot different when it comes out in court.

i applaude him for standing up for his 2nd admendment rights, but feel he should have shown his ID when asked.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:12 AM   #53
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I agree that he has the right to carry his firearm and I myself have no problem with that I actually look up to him for it. But, if a officer ask for my ID at any point and I know I've done nothing wrong I will show them my id, out of respect for there position. I would not allow myself to be harassed by them. But I also would not want to give them a reason to feel as I was being a prick about the situation.

play the victim, be the victim
I'm curious as to why you think it's respectful to show your ID. It does the officer no good to know your name. In my experience, if a cop has nothing on you, and you give him your ID, he'll hold it and not give it back even if you ask for it and are legally free to go. They do this so you won't leave.

It's disrespectful on their part to do this.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:34 AM   #54
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Not what I'm saying at all. I am just saying showing his id would be in my opinion the right thing to do. I mean you expect police to be there for you and putting there life on the line to save yours. If the guy cooperates.and the police infringe on his right to carry after he has shown he has a legal right to carry, that would go a lot farther to securing our rights. I got to tell you not all murders look like murders. Try being on the other side of that badge sometime.

My right is already secured by 2a. I don't need to prove anything to anti gun people. I'm really tired of everyone being so afraid of what liberals think. It's time to grow a set and stand up for our rights and tell the anti's to stuff it. As for police behavior, it used to be a lot different. I remember when the police weren't a bunch of puffed up *******s. I remember when they were polite and professional. I remember when it didn't take 10 cops in tactical gear carrying M4's to arrest a pot head. I've met some really good cops over the years but lately they are getting fewer and fewer.
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Old 04-26-2012, 06:47 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by partdeux View Post
Some LEO's have to be slapped down in court, others are willing to learn.

Co-Worker has an LEO brother that said if someone open carried in his city, they would be thrown down, cuffed, and hauled off to jail. Bravado? IDK. But, I made a phone call and a call went to the city's Chief and an interesting chat took place. They now recognize the legality of OC. That's one way to deal with it. But, what if that officer had encountered an OC and followed through with his threat? MI State Supreme court just ruled a couple of days ago that a citizen has the legal right to resist and unlawful arrest. Seems to me, the LEO community needs to be a lot more cautious and understand the states laws.

I said earlier this smelled like a set up. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. In any case, we will have a court case that I expect will further define RAS in the state.

There's a quote incorrectly attributed to Hitler, but in reality it's not far off from his beliefs... about the streets being safer and the police more efficient. Gestapo became masters at checking peoples "papers".
Can you link us the case?
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:19 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by rjd3282

My right is already secured by 2a. I don't need to prove anything to anti gun people. I'm really tired of everyone being so afraid of what liberals think. It's time to grow a set and stand up for our rights and tell the anti's to stuff it. As for police behavior, it used to be a lot different. I remember when the police weren't a bunch of puffed up *******s. I remember when they were polite and professional. I remember when it didn't take 10 cops in tactical gear carrying M4's to arrest a pot head. I've met some really good cops over the years but lately they are getting fewer and fewer.
Do you also remember when the were treated with respect.
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:42 AM   #57
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My right is already secured by 2a. I don't need to prove anything to anti gun people. I'm really tired of everyone being so afraid of what liberals think. It's time to grow a set and stand up for our rights and tell the anti's to stuff it. As for police behavior, it used to be a lot different. I remember when the police weren't a bunch of puffed up *******s. I remember when they were polite and professional. I remember when it didn't take 10 cops in tactical gear carrying M4's to arrest a pot head. I've met some really good cops over the years but lately they are getting fewer and fewer.
yes we do need to prove to the anti gun people that we are responsible and safety minded people who exercise our rights to bear arms. i am not afraid of what the liberals think, nor should anyone who defends the 2nd admendment. standing up for our rights doesn't mean acting stupid or bring ourselves down to their level. we need to act like we have some common sense and intelligence or else we tend to reinforce the public image they would have everyone to believe they make us out to be. we need to uphold an image of being well balanced and intelligent, not a bunch of gun toting retards they think we are for wanting to own guns. when we do as such, it takes a lot of credibility away from them. the anti gunners are not the only ones out there, what about those who straddle the fence on gun ownership? these are the ones who we can influence.

i also see way more polite and professional LEO than those who are not. corrupt LE is a small percentage that puts a black eye on all LE. could be by your own attitude, that maybe you bring out the bad side of them when you have dealings with them? because i know how quickly to take the posture out of one very fast. a complaint to his superior and then to his superior also. trust me, it works.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:10 AM   #58
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yes we do need to prove to the anti gun people that we are responsible and safety minded people who exercise our rights to bear arms. i am not afraid of what the liberals think, nor should anyone who defends the 2nd admendment. standing up for our rights doesn't mean acting stupid or bring ourselves down to their level. we need to act like we have some common sense and intelligence or else we tend to reinforce the public image they would have everyone to believe they make us out to be. we need to uphold an image of being well balanced and intelligent, not a bunch of gun toting retards they think we are for wanting to own guns. when we do as such, it takes a lot of credibility away from them. the anti gunners are not the only ones out there, what about those who straddle the fence on gun ownership? these are the ones who we can influence.

i also see way more polite and professional LEO than those who are not. corrupt LE is a small percentage that puts a black eye on all LE. could be by your own attitude, that maybe you bring out the bad side of them when you have dealings with them? because i know how quickly to take the posture out of one very fast. a complaint to his superior and then to his superior also. trust me, it works.
Well said.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:18 PM   #59
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Well, you guys keep kissing liberal ass and see how far that gets us. Look how well it's worked so far. Thank God people like you weren't in charge of the revolution.

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Old 04-26-2012, 01:37 PM   #60
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Well, you guys keep kissing liberal ass and see how far that gets us. Look how well it's worked so far. Thank God people like you weren't in charge of the revolution.
that's where you would very wrong! i kiss no ass period. just don't go around mouthing off and come off as some type of radical that doesn't bring a positive image to responsible gun owners who are trying to defend our constitutional rights with intelligence rather than ignorant rants like yours. actually the men who fought in the revolution used their heads and used strategy. that's how they defeated an army better provisioned and with a larger armed force. so thank God people like you weren't in charge, as you would have gone off half cocked and we be living under British rule now!
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