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Old 04-26-2012, 12:32 AM   #41
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Ok I hope I don't draw too much flack for this but here goes. I do open carry a lot and never had a problem. But if I was ever stopped by a police officer I would have no problem surrendering my weapon while we sorted things out. I would have no problem showing my I'd and waiting while he checks to see if I have any open warrants or that I am no felon. You know if some busy body ******* ignorant of the law calls the police they have a duty to respond and check out the situation. What if they tried to stop me and check me out and I refused and they moved on the ten minutes latter I broke into a housed held some at bay, shot and raped some one what to you think the out come would be when that person who called in is on the nightly news saying I called the cops and they did nothing.

Soooo your saying keep it concealed so you can go rape and murder without the bothersome intrusion of the police. If he wouldn't ask for my id if I wasn't carrying what gives him the right to ask for id if I am carrying. It's legal as long as I'm not brandishing or doing something illegal why is the cop bothering me? It's supposedly wrong to profile a muslim or mexican but it's ok to profile a gun owner? Even with your scenario what if they did check the guy's id and he checked out ok so the cops let him go and he goes down the street and murders somebody anyway. You aren't going to stop crime by harassing everyone who owns a gun. That's like saying we need to stop everyone who buys a beer just in case they might drive drunk later. I fear the libs have done such a wonderful job brainwashing everybody that even gun owners believe their BS.
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:44 AM   #42
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That has been ruled in several courts, and IRC even SCOTUS. LEO are NOT required to respond.
Thank you. What's IRC?
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:05 AM   #43
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Thank you. What's IRC?
If I Recall Correctly
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:09 AM   #44
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Not what I'm saying at all. I am just saying showing his id would be in my opinion the right thing to do. I mean you expect police to be there for you and putting there life on the line to save yours. If the guy cooperates.and the police infringe on his right to carry after he has shown he has a legal right to carry, that would go a lot farther to securing our rights. I got to tell you not all murders look like murders. Try being on the other side of that badge sometime.

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Old 04-26-2012, 01:51 AM   #45
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Not what I'm saying at all. I am just saying showing his id would be in my opinion the right thing to do. I mean you expect police to be there for you and putting there life on the line to save yours. If the guy cooperates.and the police infringe on his right to carry after he has shown he has a legal right to carry, that would go a lot farther to securing our rights. I got to tell you not all murders look like murders. Try being on the other side of that badge sometime.
I don't expect the police to be there for me, that's why I carry.
And as for expecting them to put their life on the line for me, I'm not even close to being that naive. They have no such duty. Not even close.
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Old 04-26-2012, 01:58 AM   #46
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Not what I'm saying at all. I am just saying showing his id would be in my opinion the right thing to do. I mean you expect police to be there for you and putting there life on the line to save yours. If the guy cooperates.and the police infringe on his right to carry after he has shown he has a legal right to carry, that would go a lot farther to securing our rights. I got to tell you not all murders look like murders. Try being on the other side of that badge sometime.
I have to agree with this fully.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:00 AM   #47
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Not what I'm saying at all. I am just saying showing his id would be in my opinion the right thing to do. I mean you expect police to be there for you and putting there life on the line to save yours. If the guy cooperates.and the police infringe on his right to carry after he has shown he has a legal right to carry, that would go a lot farther to securing our rights. I got to tell you not all murders look like murders. Try being on the other side of that badge sometime.
Where does it end? Show your ID when it is not a lawful order?

Maybe turn over your firearms aka Katrina

How about just turn over that extra cash in your wallet.

An LEO's job is not easy, nor should it be.

Actually, what we have seen in MI is when people push the limits and end up getting court rulings defending our rights, is when we get things like MSP update 86 that I quoted and linked above.

I kinda got a lesson on this a couple of years ago when a sgt in my small town, who happened to live a few doors down from me stated that non LEO should not be allowed to own firearms.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:05 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by partdeux

where does it end? Show your id when it is not a lawful order?

Maybe turn over your firearms aka katrina

how about just turn over that extra cash in your wallet.

An leo's job is not easy, nor should it be.

Actually, what we have seen in mi is when people push the limits and end up getting court rulings defending our rights, is when we get things like msp update 86 that i quoted and linked above.

I kinda got a lesson on this a couple of years ago when a sgt in my small town, who happened to live a few doors down from me stated that non leo should not be allowed to own firearms.
+100^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:12 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by partdeux

Where does it end? Show your ID when it is not a lawful order?

Maybe turn over your firearms aka Katrina

How about just turn over that extra cash in your wallet.

An LEO's job is not easy, nor should it be.

Actually, what we have seen in MI is when people push the limits and end up getting court rulings defending our rights, is when we get things like MSP update 86 that I quoted and linked above.

I kinda got a lesson on this a couple of years ago when a sgt in my small town, who happened to live a few doors down from me stated that non LEO should not be allowed to own firearms.
Its not the ones that have already made up their minds, but those that haven't you should be considering, what to you think would sway them to help support your rights. Someone who was complying to a law enforcement office in a civilized deceit way. Or someone who comes across as an ******* trouble maker.
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Old 04-26-2012, 02:33 AM   #50
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Its not the ones that have already made up their minds, but those that haven't you should be considering, what to you think would sway them to help support your rights. Someone who was complying to a law enforcement office in a civilized deceit way. Or someone who comes across as an ******* trouble maker.
Some LEO's have to be slapped down in court, others are willing to learn.

Co-Worker has an LEO brother that said if someone open carried in his city, they would be thrown down, cuffed, and hauled off to jail. Bravado? IDK. But, I made a phone call and a call went to the city's Chief and an interesting chat took place. They now recognize the legality of OC. That's one way to deal with it. But, what if that officer had encountered an OC and followed through with his threat? MI State Supreme court just ruled a couple of days ago that a citizen has the legal right to resist and unlawful arrest. Seems to me, the LEO community needs to be a lot more cautious and understand the states laws.

I said earlier this smelled like a set up. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. In any case, we will have a court case that I expect will further define RAS in the state.

There's a quote incorrectly attributed to Hitler, but in reality it's not far off from his beliefs... about the streets being safer and the police more efficient. Gestapo became masters at checking peoples "papers".
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