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Old 06-21-2012, 12:28 AM   #251
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Unreal. He has the same court date I do! For doing the same thing!

There it is. The cat's out the bag.

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Old 06-21-2012, 12:41 AM   #252
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Unreal. He has the same court date I do! For doing the same thing!

There it is. The cat's out the bag.
Good luck T, hope the law prevails.
Crazy bs how we are having to explain to so many people including cops and judges,what we are doing is LEGAL and CONSTITUTIONAL, ,,,,,,,,, pathetic
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Old 06-21-2012, 01:18 AM   #253
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Bottom line; don't act like an ass and you won't get treated like one.

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Old 06-21-2012, 01:28 AM   #254
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If he suspected he was underage, the next question should have been, "How old are you?" , not can I see your drivers license. I dont know what danger he posed if it was over his shoulder and he deserves no undue attention if he's not violating the law. This is a case of the mere appearance of a gun provoking an investigation.

If I bought a used weapon from a neighbor a few blocks away and I had no car, that would be the way I transported it, not illegal or threatening, just carrying a gun from point A to B. Just because something may make someone nervous does not mean it it grounds for illegal search and seizure of a legal firearm and the removal of his Liberty for doing nothing wrong.

I cant believe anyone would subject this adult to a litmus test that is in direct violation of the laws he has been told he must follow. Thats just wrong. The appearance of a legal device in public should not provoke such an offensive reaction.

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Old 06-21-2012, 01:30 AM   #255
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I think the bottom line is the LAW. Not whether or not the leo or judge " likes " you.

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Old 06-21-2012, 01:47 AM   #256
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Put yourself in the Officers shoes. You're on patrol and you hear a call come in that a teenager is walking around downtown with an M1 rifle and are asked to check it out. You're only kidding yourself if you say you wouldn't respond.

Lets say the Officer didn't stop the kid and he went on to rob a store and somebody winded up dead. People would be up and arms over it. "Why didn't the officer stop him?"

We can't have it both ways. Checking for his appropriate age and any prior convictions is a simple precaution. No rights were violated.

They have a dangerous job and have a right to at least know who they are dealing with. You'd want to know too.


Not all cops are out to ruin your day..........

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Old 06-21-2012, 02:34 AM   #257
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Put yourself in the Officers shoes. You're on patrol and you hear a call come in that a teenager is walking around downtown with an M1 rifle and are asked to check it out. You're only kidding yourself if you say you wouldn't respond.

Lets say the Officer didn't stop the kid and he went on to rob a store and somebody winded up dead. People would be up and arms over it. "Why didn't the officer stop him?"

We can't have it both ways. Checking for his appropriate age and any prior convictions is a simple precaution. No rights were violated.

They have a dangerous job and have a right to at least know who they are dealing with. You'd want to know too.


Not all cops are out to ruin your day..........
I'll agree it's a tough position to be in, but MI is not a stop and ID state. The brandishing and other charges were added after he refused to ID. Throw charges and see what sticks. The crap about creating a scene, the police actually did that one I've asked a question several times and have yet to receive an answer, what formal age identification training to officers receive? I suspect, but don't know as fact that most RAS have some formal training.

We have two important cases going on in MI right now. This one I expect will be tossed by the jury, but the more important one was someone arrested for OC in a quasi govt building, a district library. That's currently at the appalete level, and I suspect it will go to the state supreme court. District library has their heels dug in that they can make their own rules banning firearms in violation of state constitution. The District court judge kinda took everybody by surprise with a ruling that made zero legal sense. IRC, it was something about even tho the district library banned firearms, the person was convicted for OC, and then the judge added that CC was acceptable. Like I said, it made zero sense.
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Old 06-21-2012, 02:53 AM   #258
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I'll agree it's a tough position to be in, but MI is not a stop and ID state. The brandishing and other charges were added after he refused to ID. Throw charges and see what sticks. The crap about creating a scene, the police actually did that one I've asked a question several times and have yet to receive an answer, what formal age identification training to officers receive? I suspect, but don't know as fact that most RAS have some formal training.

We have two important cases going on in MI right now. This one I expect will be tossed by the jury, but the more important one was someone arrested for OC in a quasi govt building, a district library. That's currently at the appalete level, and I suspect it will go to the state supreme court. District library has their heels dug in that they can make their own rules banning firearms in violation of state constitution. The District court judge kinda took everybody by surprise with a ruling that made zero legal sense. IRC, it was something about even tho the district library banned firearms, the person was convicted for OC, and then the judge added that CC was acceptable. Like I said, it made zero sense.
Yeah. I'm a michigander as well. That case has been interesting to say the least.
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Old 06-21-2012, 09:32 AM   #259
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This young looking adult was walking down the street carrying a firearm. Since he looked to be under 18 years of age the cop detained him to determine his age. Somebody on here came up with the brilliant idea of just asking the kid how old he was. Yeah, right. Like the kid wouldn't lie if he was under age. So anyway, back to the detaining of the kid, excuse me, adult to determine his age. All you legal scholars out there need to check your Michigan law. If a person in Michigan is detained for investigation of a crime or possible crime it becomes mandatory to show ID on demand. This kid, excuse me, adult, refused.

Yeah I know. I keep calling him a kid even though he is an adult. Do you know why? Because he looks like one and he acted like one. All he had to do was cooperate. All he had to do was offer proof of age. Did he do this? Nope. Now either he or his parents are having to pay a lawyer and come up with bond because an 18 year old with an attitude refused to comply with the law, even though he was legally within his rights under state law up until he was detained and asked for ID.

Yes, I know I just said state law, and yes I know I'm probably going to get bombarded with a lot of Second Amendment drivel. Just remember the Tenth Amendment. It's in the same Bill of Rights, and just as important as the other nine amendments. The Tenth Amendment, sometimes referred to as the States Rights Amendment allows the individual states to determine how you will exercise your rights under all the other amendments while within the borders of that state.

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Old 06-21-2012, 10:16 AM   #260
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"Somebody on here came up with the brilliant idea of just asking the kid how old he was."

That would be me, the reason I said that is until that moment, he wasnt breaking any laws (according to the report). If he had asked the young adult his age and the answer seemed deceptive or incorrect, that would have been grounds to ask for a photo ID. The fact that he asked for a drivers License tells me the LEO probably believed he was at least old enough to drive.

Im not anti LEO, I actually very respectful of their jobs and dedication. I just have seen and heard way too many cases where the actual laws are bent and twisted subjectively FOOG! l

The Occupy Wall-street crowds were breaking laws left and right, refusing to follow orders by the police and most certainly disturbing the peace yet they were left to do what they wanted in most cases. Were not even required to show ID at the Voting booth. Police in AZ arent even allowed to check the IDs of those they suspect entered the country illegally. This young man was not doing any of those things yet he was required to produce ID for not breaking the law.

The laws must be applied equally and fairly or they are not laws, they are wedges.

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