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Old 05-03-2012, 12:10 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by rjd3282

The statement you made was "the second amendment does not give us the right to carry" but it clearly does. Those six states are in violation of the constitution. The fact that these six states are treading on our constitutional rights does not negate what the second amendment clearly states. What really bothers me is that people like you don't seem to understand this and you seem to be ok with it. I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, I'm just trying to educate you but that doesn't seem to be possible. Facts mean nothing to you. You claim to love your guns but you aren't willing to stand up for your rights and you ridicule those that are willing.

I know you are not a young person and neither am I. You are old school when it comes to respecting police officers and so am I. Times are changing, things aren't the same as they were when you and I were kids. I remember when every policeman I met was not only respectful but kind and brave. That isn't the case anymore. Why do the police need to dress in black masks? Why do they need to throw people on the ground when they have already clearly surrendered? Why did the FBI feel the need to sniper shoot a woman holding a baby after they killed her 14 year old son? (Ruby Ridge) Why did they burn nearly 100 people to death many of them children over a lousy 200 dollar tax on a full auto gun? (Waco) These are only two examples. Old school or not this is not the America I grew up in. Please Mr. Kycol wake up open your eyes and see what is happening.
You are clearly taking my statement out of context or just didn't read it before you became irate, I said it didn't,give you a right to open carry or to ccw, those rights are clearly determined by the states. And the states can change that easier than the constitution can be changed. That not to say i like that fact but it is a fact that each state dictates how and what you carry even though the 2nd amendment is still in place. You know full well what my statement was about. It was about wanting people to see gun owner as an asset not a radical group that needs to be dealt with. I knew I would be crucified for the post, but I posted it anyway. I am very willing to stand up for my rights but acting like an ass isn't going to get me very far. I would prefer to do it the right way.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:17 PM   #192
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You are mistaken kycol I am not irate. I feel very sad.

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Old 05-03-2012, 01:16 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by kycol View Post

The second amendment guarantees us the rights to own guns, but it does not guarantee right to open carry, right to ccw, or a right to a 30 round magazine.
"...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Webster's definition of bear:

Definition of BEAR

transitive verb
1
a : to move while holding up and supporting (something)
b : to be equipped or furnished with (something)


If you read any of the commentary of the framers of the Constitution, you will also see that their intent in the 2nd A was focussed on common military type weapons with no restrictions that could be used in defense of the country or even against the government. In today's conversation, that would very well include 30 round magazines.

Do you want to reconsider your statement?
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:25 PM   #194
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You are clearly taking my statement out of context or just didn't read it before you became irate, I said it didn't,give you a right to open carry or to ccw, those rights are clearly determined by the states. And the states can change that easier than the constitution can be changed. That not to say i like that fact but it is a fact that each state dictates how and what you carry even though the 2nd amendment is still in place. You know full well what my statement was about. It was about wanting people to see gun owner as an asset not a radical group that needs to be dealt with. I knew I would be crucified for the post, but I posted it anyway. I am very willing to stand up for my rights but acting like an ass isn't going to get me very far. I would prefer to do it the right way.
Rights are not determined by states. Rights are not given to you by any man, body of men, or society. Rights are yours by the very fact of you being on this earth. They are the natural order of creation. The Bill of Rights was a negatively constructed document clearly delineating what the government cannot do. It was not a document delineating what the government will allow. This may sound like splitting hairs, but this fact is absolutely critical to understanding the very foundation of the country we live in and the nature of man's relationship with government.

You have fallen victim to the most evil lie that statists actively broadcast. But I am not surprised. They have effectively neutered any education about our Constitution for decades.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:31 PM   #195
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Thank you ScottA you can take over I'm very tired.

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Old 05-03-2012, 08:25 PM   #196
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Update on the case:

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Combs' formal arraignment, set for May 2, was waived at the request of his attorney, James Makowski. A pre-trial is set for 1:30 p.m. May 15 in front of Judge Marc Baron.

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Old 05-03-2012, 09:35 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by kycol View Post
The second amendment guarantees us the rights to own guns, but it does not guarantee right to open carry, right to ccw, or a right to a 30 round magazine.
The Second Amendment reads:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Nowhere do I see a limit on what type of arms we may own or carry.

Nowhere do I see a reference to magazine capacity limits or rate-of-fire limits.

Nowhere do I see a reference to the manner in which we are allowed to carry - open or concealed.

As a living thing, I have a right to defend myself. As a person, I have the ability to anticipate what I might come up against in different circumstances. Sometimes, open carry may serve me better than concealed carry and vice versa. Sometimes, carrying a rifle slung on my shoulder with a dozen mags will serve me better than a .25 shoved in my pocket and vice versa. But as a person with rights, I get to decide.

When we allow government to take our decision-making away as it pertains to our natural rights, we have already lost the evolutionary battle.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:34 PM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkt
The Second Amendment reads:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Nowhere do I see a limit on what type of arms we may own or carry.

Nowhere do I see a reference to magazine capacity limits or rate-of-fire limits.

Nowhere do I see a reference to the manner in which we are allowed to carry - open or concealed.

As a living thing, I have a right to defend myself. As a person, I have the ability to anticipate what I might come up against in different circumstances. Sometimes, open carry may serve me better than concealed carry and vice versa. Sometimes, carrying a rifle slung on my shoulder with a dozen mags will serve me better than a .25 shoved in my pocket and vice versa. But as a person with rights, I get to decide.

When we allow government to take our decision-making away as it pertains to our natural rights, we have already lost the evolutionary battle.

the point I was making that the states themselves have set the laws as to if open carry in that state or not. The state has decided if you ccw or not. The state has determined if you can have that 30 round mag. I didn't say I liked that or I agreed with it. The point is that that's the way it is, and the states has demonstrated that the can change those laws. So what I was saying is why wouldn't you want people to see gun owners in a positive light. And I am fully aware that this thread started as what took place in Mi. When it comes down to it each state is and has been determining how you carry, what permits and or licenses you need, and some the capacity of your mag. So that is the point I was making it is factual argue as much much as you want does not change the facts. Carry the rifle slung over your shoulder with a dozen mags down main street in one of six states that does not allow open carry and see how many blocks you get.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:53 PM   #199
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Carry the rifle slung over your shoulder with a dozen mags down main street in one of six states that does not allow open carry and see how many blocks you get.
Why the strawman argument? This topic was about a specific young man exercising his legal right to open carry in Michigan.

The question the court will be forced to answer, did the LEO has RAS that a crime was being committed?
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:00 AM   #200
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Banning open carry posted in a gun forum.Amazing. Just what Pelosi Brady Fienstein Clinton and Obama love to hear.

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