[bkt]

Originally Posted by kycol

Had the kid complied with the simple request to show his id there would probably been a completely different out come. And after doing so if the outcome had not been different he could have had a field day in court I'm sure. I just don't see why any intelligent person has a problem with this. If I was called out on a complaint and had to confront someone with a gun, I would want to know who I'm dealing with or what I dealing with. Let's face it Leo's get shot walking up to a car window just to write a simple speeding ticket. If the kid looks to young he should check, I mean come on ids are checked every day to purchase beer or cigarettes. Now if i see he is of age since I have already made the stop before I have back a weapon I check for warrants or criminal (felon) records. If all is ok both are on their merry way.

But if the first thing you do is refuse to comply with a simple request and act like an asshat, then the first thing I am going to think is you have something to hide. A bad attitude and total disrespect for the officer will put him on guard. And the frustration could cause a very good leo to appear to be a bad one. Are their bad cops, you bet. But the majority are good, the only want to do their job and be able to go home to their family.

Yes a nine minute response time would feel like a lifetime if your waiting for help, but the sad fact is most departments are under staffed. And in this case if the officer was not tied up with a uncooperative clown he could have moved on to the next call.

And yes this kid gives gun owners a black eye, simply because of his actions. I would think that any intelligent gun owner would want to be viewed as intelligent law abiding citizen. Yes there are people out there dead set against guns, we can forget about them. But there are others not sure or straddling the fence, let's win them over not drive them away.

I'm will not give up my rights, but let's use the right methods to protect them.

Unfortunately, we disagree. The "you should comply if you have nothing to hide" song has been sung by countless would-be tyrants throughout the ages. Sorry, but the law in this country doesn't work that way. When the act of refusing to turn over your ID to a cop so he can run it is itself enough suspicion of wrongdoing, we have turned a corner.

As for perceptions others might have about the kid's actions, that really doesn't matter. Bottom line: the kid knew his rights and did nothing wrong. The same can't be said for the cop in this case.

[rjd3282]

Perfect tCan. I would think that would be enough to convince the "police are always right crowd" but I doubt it. None so blind as those that WILL NOT SEE.

Every time we give/compromise the left wants/takes a little more. It's time to say enough is enough.

[Bear304inc]

Originally Posted by tCan

In a follow up to my previous post, Justice Byron White had this to say about the the famous Terry vs. Ohio case:

Further:

My point with the second quote and bolding is that police time and time again overstep their bounds in these incidences where a weapon is present and they use this simple presence as justification for seizure and arrest, when in fact as held by the supreme court, greater justification is required. It happened to me in my own residence. It happened to this man, and I'm sure it continues to happen to many others. And you guys wonder why there's no respect for police...

Further text, this time from the dissenting judge, Fortas:

I'm sure some smart alec will pipe up, "Yeah but what's probable cause?"

If simple possession of a rifle is grounds for issuing a warrant, then we all better turn ourselves in...

I think this post fairly succinctly puts this issue to rest. The boy's rights have been violated. Anyone who argues otherwise, saying the police were just doing their job, I suggest you do not become a laywer.

Awesome and precise, no intelligent free thinking person can reasonably refute this.

[MobileMarine]

I think it boils down to the kid trying to be a bad ass in front of his girl , the cop having to deal with smart ass's everyday and people who think they know the law better than him , he tuned the kid up with some decent charges . Im not disputing that some leos are power hungry but knowing many and growing up around them I can tell you that its best not to piss them off . I have seen everything from planted evidence to destroyed car interiors that have been pissed on , lets not forget the accidental head butts while putting them in the back seat .
As for one asking me for my id , i would have no problem , now a random search I may have a slight issue with but if it waste their time and makes them happy then go for it .
If Im walking down the road with a long gun , I woul dhave no problem giving my id to a leo , If a pansie ass call the cops for me carrying in walmart , I would have no problem showing my Id .

[partdeux]

Originally Posted by Mason609

Do you have 100% irrefutable proof that it was nothing more than the cops wanted to harass this kid? No, I didn't think so.

Birmingham MI has a reputation of harassing OC. One of the early press reports attributed a B'ham LEO as saying, people find it disturbing to see guns in the downtown area.

[partdeux]

Originally Posted by MobileMarine

the cop having to deal with smart ass's everyday and people who think they know the law better than him , he tuned the kid up with some decent charges .

Everything I've seen about this young man, he knew exactly what he was doing, and it had nothing to do with anybody that accompanied him.

Funny thing about the charges, it was the LEO that caused the commotion, not the young man following the law. If you read the MML Legal pdf's I linked above, it specifically addresses that issue.

Originally Posted by MobileMarine

If Im walking down the road with a long gun , I woul dhave no problem giving my id to a leo , If a pansie ass call the cops for me carrying in walmart , I would have no problem showing my Id .

How about if that same LEO wants to take possession of your firearm because you're scaring people?

[MobileMarine]

How about if that same LEO wants to take possession of your firearm because you're scaring people?

Good point , he would have to take me along with the gun . Anyone trying to take or bring harm to any of my guns is second to messing with my kids or family
Most of mine are family relics , hell I have the 1889 remington sxs 12ga That was bought new from some great grand pa way down the line .
I can see where both side are coming from . Why he was carrying for no aparent reason , knowing the chance of him being hassled was going to be high eve though he was perfectly legal to do so is kinda like driving though the wrong side of town late at night , stopping to talk to the guys on the corner . 100% legal but it just looks wrong even if your not doing anything or have no ill intent .

Everytime I get pulled I get hassled a bit on the guns I have with me '' The ak or a 12ga and usually 2 pistols . They run numbers and ask 21 questions but Im ok with that , to me they are doing their job , what if I had a gun stolen and the bg gets pulled but they dont bother to check it ?

No Im not parnoid for having so many in the tahoe with me , I just like to vent after work from time to time , you know , maybe empty the ak into part that pissed me off earlier in the day , maybe some tannerite . Some time syou need a pistol , some times you need more

[rjd3282]

Now it is against the law to act like a bad ass in front of your girl friend? If acting stupid was against the law every obama voter would be in prison.

[MobileMarine]

Now it is against the law to act like a bad ass in front of your girl friend? If acting stupid was against the law every obama voter would be in prison.

AHAHAHAHAHA

What about ripping off obama bumper stickers ? Thats my favorite past time .
Other than giving the drivers a very stern evil eye when I drive by them before slightly cutting them off , no turn signal of course . I know , Im mean

[axxe55]

Originally Posted by rjd3282

Now it is against the law to act like a bad ass in front of your girl friend? If acting stupid was against the law every obama voter would be in prison.

so far they haven't passed a law for being stupid yet! so acting badass in front of your girlfriend with a LEO about a firearm, is at my top of the list for stupidity.