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Old 04-30-2012, 11:39 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Bear304inc View Post
There seems to be a problem distinguishing between what you "feel" is right, and what is legal.


You've hit the nail on the proverbial head. People think. Sheeple feel.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:43 PM   #142
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So I guess this is what you would do also at a DUI check point? Would you refuse to show your id?

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Old 04-30-2012, 11:47 PM   #143
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Driving is not a right.

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Old 04-30-2012, 11:47 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by kycol
So I guess this is what you would do also at a DUI check point? Would you refuse to show your id?
In that case you would be driving, and that is a legal situation to be required to produce a drivers license, not an ID. ( although checkpoints are just as questionable as to legality. )
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:19 AM   #145
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Provoke an officer? You have no legal obligation to produce ID for LE if you are not suspect in some form of wrong doing. This guy was hassled because some panty waist liberal got a wrinkle in her skibbies and called the law. Open carry is legal in his state, he was confronted by LEO for doing something within his rights. This boils down to LEO not knowing the laws and not caring about civil rights, period. Exercise your rights or you will lose them.
I agree that you have no legal obligation to produce ID for the LEO. But, producing the ID doesn't really injure you. The situation creates an opportunity to talk to the LEO about the open carry law and possibly gain a supporter among the local LEOs.

Demonstrating to this LEO that you are a calm, level-headed, cooperative gun owner probably has a greater value to the benefit of 2A activities in the area than demonstrating the "stamp your foot on the ground and scream 'I don't have to!' " attitude. If the same LEO keeps hassling you, then you take his badge number and discuss it with his superior officer.

You are lucky to live in an open carry state. I wish you would use that good fortune to the benefit of those of use who don't! Why create a news event for the benefit of the anti-gun media? Why not try to create another LEO who is supportive?
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:28 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balota
I agree that you have no legal obligation to produce ID for the LEO. But, producing the ID doesn't really injure you. The situation creates an opportunity to talk to the LEO about the open carry law and possibly gain a supporter among the local LEOs.

Demonstrating to this LEO that you are a calm, level-headed, cooperative gun owner probably has a greater value to the benefit of 2A activities in the area than demonstrating the "stamp your foot on the ground and scream 'I don't have to!' " attitude. If the same LEO keeps hassling you, then you take his badge number and discuss it with his superior officer.

You are lucky to live in an open carry state. I wish you would use that good fortune to the benefit of those of use who don't! Why create a news event for the benefit of the anti-gun media? Why not try to create another LEO who is supportive?
I think you stuck a good balance in this argument.
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:56 AM   #147
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Your correct and most who have put on a police, firefight and military uniform have earned mine.
+100 ^^^^ Me 2.

I believe there was no real need for the kid to create a situation where none existed. The officer puts his life on the line every day that he works, simply by putting on the uniform. Show him some respect by showing him your ID when asked.

If he continues to harass you without justification, make an issue of that. Remember that this situation was entirely recorded. Your cooperation would also have been recorded. That strengthens the case against some hard-a$$ LEO with an agenda AND demonstrates reasonable respect to the much more common LEO that's just trying to stay safe.

Either way you would have come out ahead of the game. If the LEO was really a BG with a badge, the resulting recording would have been even more devastating in court. If the LEO was on the fence, your level-headed behavior could help convince him that not all open carry folks are fanatics. If the LEO was already on your side, you would have walked away with no problems.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:02 AM   #148
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So I guess this is what you would do also at a DUI check point? Would you refuse to show your id?
really good question...

since the person is driving, they are required to show ID, but in MI, according to the state attorney general, DUI checkpoints are illegal.

But thanks for the strawman argument.
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:12 AM   #149
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That may be true in Mi. But not every state.but I understand why t

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Old 05-01-2012, 01:17 AM   #150
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I asked my brother, a part time deputy and p.t. city Leo, about ohios laws pertaining to this issue, he said open carry is legal but ANYTIME a Leo asks for id you must produce it. He also said expect to be harassed, which started an argument. If I had the balls to open carry like that in a uppity neighborhood, I would expect to be questioned by anyone I came across. I regulary open carry a rifle on the rural road I live on, in case I see a varmit I walk off the road away from right of way and shoot. Quite a few deputies and stayed patrol have passed me and I just wave. Never been stopped. Definitely where you open carry is an issue.

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