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Old 02-21-2011, 04:42 PM   #21
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One more thing, Polygon,

You are free to have your opinions and express them as you see fit. Please don't think that you are being attacked or ganged up on by the forum members, I believe we are just expressing our opinions as well. That is part of what makes this place and America great.

But, anytime the arguement that guns are only made for killing is used, then I feel the need to express my opinion as to the flaw of that arguement.

My guns have killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car. Lots of animals though, even more animals than my car has killed.
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Old 02-21-2011, 05:56 PM   #22
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If you give them permission to ban your gun or magazine then you sure as hell are giving them permission to ban your car or whatever else they see fit to ban. Freedom is freedom doesn't matter whether it's guns, cars or anything else it's all apples to apples my friend.
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:48 PM   #23
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Wait till the greens start on us. I can hear it now we don't like gas guzzling corvettes so nobody should have one.

Personally as long as nobody is stepping on my toes they can do what they want to themselves it's none of my business.
Start? What do you think that ethanol crap is about; it's about getting older and less efficient cars off the market, and i'm sure the people at Government Motors are crying about it all the way to the bank. Water down our fuel so that our cars get even worse fuel economy than before (after revising how the EPA comes up with their MPG "estimates" to lower those "estimates" across the board ), water it down even more with 15% ethanol to destroy the fuel pumps in all the cars the "new car smell" has worn off of by a month or more, bait some trade-ins with a tax incentive, then just whizz on our hats and say it is raining. Thanks a lot Uncle Sam.

I agree with the toe preservation theme. I also don't trust the bunch of backroom-dealing beaurocrats that came up with the ethanol lies/program to regulate anything beyond their own breathing or how much pocket lining they can grift from the public.

You think my 13 round magazines hold too many bullets? Don't buy them; they sell 10 rounders for the hexadecimally limited.
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Old 02-21-2011, 07:03 PM   #24
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I know what your talking about orangello. Why do some people think turning our food into fuel is a good idea? That won't make the cost of corn go up will it? In my home town in Ohio they built a brand spankin new ehtanol plant it never produced one drop of ethanol, it is just sitting there with the lights on but nobody is home. The people running this government haven't got the sense that God gave a crowbar. I'm talking both sides of the aisle.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:11 AM   #25
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WHY....................WHY THE RIGHT TO OWN AND CARRY A 30-ROUND MAGAZINE.................THIS IS WHY!

TAKE WHAT YOU WILL FROM THIS READING, BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT'S INTENT!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.-That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,-That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do.-And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our fortunes and our sacred Honor.
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:21 AM   #26
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I would agree with most of your post but it's comparing apples to oranges. I can't stand the whole green movement with a passion. I have two cars which have no other purpose that driving obnoxiously fast. They aren't practical in any way. However, guns have a pretty singular purpose. They are intended to be used to kill other things. While cars are intended to get from point A to B. One is pretty benign, the other isn't.

I will also agree that I'm sick and tired of the liberal agenda. But the problem we have is that nobody is willing to find a middle ground. One side feels they have the right to do whatever they want while the other feels you have the right to nothing. I'm not supporting banning these, as I have stated, that will do nothing. Both sides are thinking in absolutes, all or nothing. Neither will work in the end.
JMO, I could be wrong.
I have a suggestion, how about those people that want to own guns for recreation target shooting, hunting and/or personal defense be allowed to do so and those that don't...don't. In the meantime all the liberal fascists that want to stick their collective noses in my personal, constitutionally protected business can sit down and STFU. I also believe that criminals should never be permitted to ever again own a gun and a crime committed with a gun of any sort should carry severe penalties...that's how you get illegal guns off the street, not by restricting mine.
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:35 AM   #27
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Pretty narrow view of the purpose of the gun.

I fire a couple hundred rounds a month, without killing anyone. For sporting hunting, competition.
No it's not.

The car was invented for ONE purpose. To get from point A to point B. The gun was invented for ONE purpose. To kill other living things. None of my guns have killed another living thing. That doesn't change what it was invented for and it doesn't change the fact that comparing it to a car is apples to oranges. It's an argument that's full of fallacy.

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Automobile accidents kill more people each year in the US than people shooting each other. Speed is a decisive factor in many auto accidents. I think there is no need to have a car that goes over the speed limit, but that does not mean I don't think cars should be governed to that limit.
There's one big difference here. Those are accidents, where most shootings are intentional.

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Several states have magazine cap limits and that does not stop the criminals from getting them and using them. If I want to get a 30+ round magazine for any firearm I have, then why should I not get one. More shooting time at the range and less reloading.
As I already stated cap limits and bans are USELESS. They will never stop criminals from getting them. If you want them out of the hands of criminals you have to eliminate them completely. That's not what I'm suggesting as it's not really practical. That was simply the point I was trying to make that bans are pointless.

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Most states already have cap limits on hunting firearms. Game is what firearms are used to kill by a vast majority. I have guns that I use to hunt and guns that I have just in case I need to protect myself and my family. So, your "guns have a single purpose and that is to kill" agruement null and void.
Hunting = killing.
Protecting yourself and your family = killing.

We all use or guns for recreation. Just because we find another use for something that it was originally intended for doesn't change the fact that the gun was invented to kill other livings things, and nothing else.

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I don't know where everyone is buying all these "killer" guns and ammo and magazines and knives and swords and "stuff".

None of mine have ever killed anyone.

My .308 took down a couple of hogs as part of a controlled hunt a few years ago, but it didn't do it by itself, as a matter of fact I had to do all the friggin work.

The hell?!

I got to start shopping at better places apparently....
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None of my guns has ever killed a living creature, unless you count cardboard zombies and clay discs. I only ever use them at the range to target shoot, does that mean I'm using them wrong?
Once again, see above.

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One more thing, Polygon,

You are free to have your opinions and express them as you see fit. Please don't think that you are being attacked or ganged up on by the forum members, I believe we are just expressing our opinions as well. That is part of what makes this place and America great.

But, anytime the arguement that guns are only made for killing is used, then I feel the need to express my opinion as to the flaw of that arguement.

My guns have killed less people than Ted Kennedy's car. Lots of animals though, even more animals than my car has killed.
I knew it wasn't going to be a popular opinion. And I have no problem with people posting their opinion. However, are you going to argue with me that when the first gun was invented that it had any other purpose than killing? The fact that we have adapted it to recreation over time doesn't change what it is at the core. It's a machine that was intended to kill. My point was that you can't compare that to a car. That argument was severely flawed and that's all I was trying to point out.

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Originally Posted by orangello View Post
Start? What do you think that ethanol crap is about; it's about getting older and less efficient cars off the market, and i'm sure the people at Government Motors are crying about it all the way to the bank. Water down our fuel so that our cars get even worse fuel economy than before (after revising how the EPA comes up with their MPG "estimates" to lower those "estimates" across the board ), water it down even more with 15% ethanol to destroy the fuel pumps in all the cars the "new car smell" has worn off of by a month or more, bait some trade-ins with a tax incentive, then just whizz on our hats and say it is raining. Thanks a lot Uncle Sam.

I agree with the toe preservation theme. I also don't trust the bunch of backroom-dealing beaurocrats that came up with the ethanol lies/program to regulate anything beyond their own breathing or how much pocket lining they can grift from the public.

You think my 13 round magazines hold too many bullets? Don't buy them; they sell 10 rounders for the hexadecimally limited.
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I know what your talking about orangello. Why do some people think turning our food into fuel is a good idea? That won't make the cost of corn go up will it? In my home town in Ohio they built a brand spankin new ehtanol plant it never produced one drop of ethanol, it is just sitting there with the lights on but nobody is home. The people running this government haven't got the sense that God gave a crowbar. I'm talking both sides of the aisle.
Oh man, don't even get me started on corn.... They would make everything out of it if they could. Right now they're pushing to up the ethanol content in fuel for one reason alone, because they greedy *******s. It isn't good for the cars and it's not good for the environment.

I really love the whole corn sugar movement though. These commercials of people that supposedly researched by viewing material, provided by a biased source, to find that it's no different than cane sugar. Which is complete bull****.

Then there's the whole green movement which is really pissing me off.

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Originally Posted by Jpyle View Post
I have a suggestion, how about those people that want to own guns for recreation target shooting, hunting and/or personal defense be allowed to do so and those that don't...don't. In the meantime all the liberal fascists that want to stick their collective noses in my personal, constitutionally protected business can sit down and STFU. I also believe that criminals should never be permitted to ever again own a gun and a crime committed with a gun of any sort should carry severe penalties...that's how you get illegal guns off the street, not by restricting mine.
I can get behind stiffer penalties. I believe that our justice system is VERY flawed and that could go a long way to deter crime. The reason I say that I don't see the need for a 31 round magazine is because I just don't think that using two magazines instead of one is that big of a deal. However, I can understand that big things happen with a lot of small steps. I can understand the fear of our liberties being stripped away little by little.

I just think that both sides need to find a common ground. That's never going to happen though.
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:55 AM   #28
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Ok, I think there must have been some misunderstanding going on here. I thought you were for a ban on higher cap mags and more firearms restrictions. But, read on.

I can see coming to common ground when I can see some of the ground that used to be common. The libs have taken so much of the conservatives ground (mostly allowed by spineless RINO's), that I can't see the ground through the pile of crap shat by big gubmit (and growing). To concede more ground now is akin to letting squatters take over nearly every inch of property we all live upon.

Now, I hope you are not equating the killing of animals (4 legged kind) for food, clothing, shelter and tools to killing other human beings in an act like the nut job in Arizona. As a human being myself, I do have the right to protect myself, and be damned sure if another human is going to try to harm me then I will kill that human in defense. Not the same as hunting legally and taking the time to take the shot that will put the game down DRT in one shot.
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Old 02-22-2011, 04:21 AM   #29
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Ok, I think there must have been some misunderstanding going on here. I thought you were for a ban on higher cap mags and more firearms restrictions. But, read on.

I can see coming to common ground when I can see some of the ground that used to be common. The libs have taken so much of the conservatives ground (mostly allowed by spineless RINO's), that I can't see the ground through the pile of crap shat by big gubmit (and growing). To concede more ground now is akin to letting squatters take over nearly every inch of property we all live upon.

Now, I hope you are not equating the killing of animals (4 legged kind) for food, clothing, shelter and tools to killing other human beings in an act like the nut job in Arizona. As a human being myself, I do have the right to protect myself, and be damned sure if another human is going to try to harm me then I will kill that human in defense. Not the same as hunting legally and taking the time to take the shot that will put the game down DRT in one shot.
Yeah, I think we do.

In no way do I support a ban and I certainly do not support more firearm restrictions. I do agree that the liberal agenda is trying to eat away more and more of the conservatives ground. The liberals are more the problem that anyone else. They're are the main reason I don't believe that we can find common ground. And I'm not just talking about firearms here either.

Also, I do not equate hunting and protecting your own life and the life of others as murder. I've been hunting plenty of times and I fully support it. I feel it something that anyone with the future in mind should know how to do. We might not always have a grocery store to go to. I also have a CCP and I carry my gun everywhere. I also have a gun for home protections. If I had to, I would use them.

Those are completely different than, for instance, what happened in Arizona and I see nothing wrong with either.
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Old 02-22-2011, 05:52 AM   #30
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Common ground is just another word for compromise. I for one am not willing to compromise my civil rights just to make some liberal feel good. Common ground/compromise with liberals always means they get what they want and we get screwed. It's time to stop pacifying these idiots.
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