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Old 09-06-2008, 09:42 PM   #11
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I can't add anything to the well said thoughts above, but figured I would share this: I saw a quote once (can't recall who wrote it) to the effect that Democrats think all Republicans are evil, and Republicans think all Democrats are stupid.

Simplistic yes, but accurate from my vantage point
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Old 09-07-2008, 01:22 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by BigO01 View Post

Hypocrisy you say RL ?

My friend , the real Hypocrites are the ones we're voting for , every single one of them , I think it's a prerequisite of the job !!

Yes I said Hypocrisy. Obama has the dubious distinction of being THE MOST LIBERAL senator. He is a staunch anti-gun, anti-2nd Amendment Liberal to boot. I don't want to list all of his anti-gun votes and legislation here because it has been posted ad nauseum in several posts on this forum. Anyone who "claims" to be a gun owner and proud supporter of the NRA, and in the next breath states that he is voting for the anti-gun candidate is a hypocrite plain and simple. This is a firearms forum, not a political forum. So I ask you, does it make sense that someone would join a firearms forum and make the statement that he will support the anti-gun candidate? There is no diplomatic way to spin it. How can you be a "proud supporter of such and such" and then vote against it??!! Why would somebody even make the claim if in the next sentence they are going to contradict themself?
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkwolf228 View Post
Hello,

I wanted to get an idea of what people thought about this...

It seems that with every political issue, the republicans and democrats pick a stance on it (usually opposite) and we end up with essentially two huge lumps of viewpoints we are asked to pick from.

Gun control is one of those things there is no grey area about. Republicans support gun ownership, democrats oppose it.

I am a democrat, in almost every aspect... but I feel very strongly against gun control and am a proud NRA member, and handgun owner.

The dilemma facing folks like me is we have to give something up. Do I vote with where I stand on the majority of issues? Or do I stick to a candidate who is in line with one very important issue only? In the end, most people will stick to the party of whom they are in-line with on the MOST issues.

So I will be voting for Obama this year. His choice of VP is a bit troubling though, in so far as gun control issues go.

Anyway - any one else out there in the same boat?
My question is simple, you support the NRA yet probably oppose every candidate they endorse. Don't you feel like you are wasting your money? I promise you they won't be sending any money to the Osama, opps, I mean Obama campaign this year or anytime in the future. Just a thought.

This honestly looks like a rigged post to me.
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Old 09-07-2008, 03:12 AM   #14
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This is a firearms forum, not a political forum. So I ask you, does it make sense that someone would join a firearms forum and make the statement that he will support the anti-gun candidate? There is no diplomatic way to spin it. How can you be a "proud supporter of such and such" and then vote against it??!! Why would somebody even make the claim if in the next sentence they are going to contradict themself?
Actually the answer to your questions are easy RL .

Darkwolf may as many others not bothered to look into a candidates back ground "Which isn't that extensive or easy to find" , and often don't even start paying attention to politics until right before the election if even then and take a candidate at the face value of whatever they have been told by friends , family , and I suppose in todays world others on internet forums .

If you listen to Obamas last interview on the subject he claims to support a citizens RKBA just as people now think McCain supports off shore drilling for oil . I know I saw an old interview with McCain where he says he is completely against it because he is as an environmentalist . Go figure .

People often believe the last thing they heard out of their mouths and assume they will govern from a populist position as Clinton did in the last 4 years.

Then we have a Huge historic difference here than any other past elections if you think about it .

The recent Supreme Court decision defining the 2A as an individual right was huge in many peoples minds .

Many may think this will prevent Obama and a Democratically controlled Congress from passing any more gun laws .

I don't know if this has occurred to many but the Democrats are simply running the exact same playbook they did in 2002 .

If you recall a known candidate "with an extensive paper trail", Dukakis couldn't beat Bush Sr. in 1998 so they went with a fairly unknown candidate that they could make or remake as a moderate in 2002 , Bill Clinton .

This is what they are hoping they can pull off again with Obama , a candidate with a limited voting record that can slide under the radar of his true beliefs and then Govern from the left and he seems to be pulling it off .

If Obama wins all he has to do to assure himself being reelected is to pass legislation to stop the speculative stock trading for oil commodities , allow for more drilling in America and the prices at the pump will drop down to close to $2-$2.50 a gallon and he will be a national hero .

I don't know about you RL but these runaway gas and other energy prices have put a huge crimp in our life and there's no reason for it other than pure greed . I haven't been shooting this year because I just can't justify spending $80 just in gas to go and do it and deer hunting looks pretty bleak at this point .

Bush could have issued a price freeze before they ever reached $2.50 a gallon much less $4 and he didn't and there never was any kind of shortage , instead he let his big oil pals make hundreds of Billions more in profit and kill the average person life style .

Thats a damn hard thing to forget much less forgive , even for me and I am so far Right on the gun issue if I had the power I would be issuing death warrants for hundreds of turn coats who voted for any gun control Including Reagan if he were alive for signing the bill that banned new machine gun sales .
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Old 09-07-2008, 02:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigO01 View Post
Actually the answer to your questions are easy RL .

Darkwolf may as many others not bothered to look into a candidates back ground "Which isn't that extensive or easy to find" , and often don't even start paying attention to politics until right before the election if even then and take a candidate at the face value of whatever they have been told by friends , family , and I suppose in todays world others on internet forums .

His statement does not indicate that he is naive on the issue, so I cannot accept that explanation Big001.
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Gun control is one of those things there is no grey area about. Republicans support gun ownership, democrats oppose it.
In fact, in the next sentence he admonishes Biden for HIS stance on gun control, so obviously the poster is not in a vacuum. Besides, if he is really an NRA member, all he has to do is look at the American Rifleman or American Hunter for a thorough run down of Obama's voting record on gun issues! They have been publicizing this info for the last several months!

If you listen to Obamas last interview on the subject he claims to support a citizens RKBA just as people now think McCain supports off shore drilling for oil . I know I saw an old interview with McCain where he says he is completely against it because he is as an environmentalist . Go figure .

I prefer to give most people the benefit of the doubt where "intelligence" and ability to discern truth from political propaganda are concerned. If I was completely naive or ignorant on a particular subject, I certainly wouldn't join a forum on that subject and proceed to post my views.

People often believe the last thing they heard out of their mouths and assume they will govern from a populist position as Clinton did in the last 4 years.

Again, the poster started out acknowledging a clear distinction between the Republican and Democratic stance on gun control - so this explanation doesn't hold water IMO.
Then we have a Huge historic difference here than any other past elections if you think about it .

The recent Supreme Court decision defining the 2A as an individual right was huge in many peoples minds .
Many may think this will prevent Obama and a Democratically controlled Congress from passing any more gun laws .
Certainly no NRA members are that naive! And anybody with even a marginal understanding of our Constitution realizes that Supreme Court rulings can be reversed, which is what will happen with enough anti-gun judges appointed to the bench by an anti-gun president and approved by and anti-gun senate and congress


If Obama wins all he has to do to assure himself being reelected is to pass legislation to stop the speculative stock trading for oil commodities , allow for more drilling in America and the prices at the pump will drop down to close to $2-$2.50 a gallon and he will be a national hero .

Being in the oil business myself, that wouldn't bother me too much! But, as McCain said with respect to the war in Iraq, I would rather lose my business, than lose my country.

I don't know about you RL but these runaway gas and other energy prices have put a huge crimp in our life and there's no reason for it other than pure greed . I haven't been shooting this year because I just can't justify spending $80 just in gas to go and do it and deer hunting looks pretty bleak at this point .

Well let me tell you a little about me. I feel the same way, and in fact these prices are forcing me to go out of business. I can no longer afford to pay $16,000 to fill my truck with #2 heating oil - It used to cost me $7500 just 2 years ago! Each year I have to have enough cash to buy at least 3-4 truckloads of oil to start in the fall before I can make enough in profit to buy the oil. That used to be a cash reserve of 20-$30,000. Now I need a cash reserve of $48-64,000. I didn't even make that much last year. Add to that the reduction in sales due to the inflated prices and increased use of pellet, coal, & wood stoves, and I am hurting to the point of losing everything I own - not just struggling to fill my gas tank. Besides, my trucks run on diesel, they get 5 miles/gallon and the cost of diesel where I live is almost $5 per gallon. My insurance is $8000 a year, and I drive about 8000 miles a year in my delivery truck - that's $1 per mile for insurance, and $1 per mile for fuel. If I amortize my maintenance costs also, it costs me over $2.50 per mile just to drive! I refuse to take out an equity loan to buy oil when there is no guarantee that I won't go out of business anyway.
You don't have to tell me about the high cost of gas! And as far as deer hunting goes, I'll probably be doing it strictly for the food value this year, not so much for the sport.

Bush could have issued a price freeze before they ever reached $2.50 a gallon much less $4 and he didn't and there never was any kind of shortage , instead he let his big oil pals make hundreds of Billions more in profit and kill the average person life style .

Thats a damn hard thing to forget much less forgive , even for me and I am so far Right on the gun issue if I had the power I would be issuing death warrants for hundreds of turn coats who voted for any gun control Including Reagan if he were alive for signing the bill that banned new machine gun sales .
Who do we blame for deregulation?
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Old 09-07-2008, 05:00 PM   #16
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Good discussion was started I think.

Just want to respond to a couple things.

Yes I said Hypocrisy. Obama has the dubious distinction of being THE MOST LIBERAL senator. He is a staunch anti-gun, anti-2nd Amendment Liberal to boot. I don't want to list all of his anti-gun votes and legislation here because it has been posted ad nauseum in several posts on this forum. Anyone who "claims" to be a gun owner and proud supporter of the NRA, and in the next breath states that he is voting for the anti-gun candidate is a hypocrite plain and simple. This is a firearms forum, not a political forum. So I ask you, does it make sense that someone would join a firearms forum and make the statement that he will support the anti-gun candidate? There is no diplomatic way to spin it. How can you be a "proud supporter of such and such" and then vote against it??!! Why would somebody even make the claim if in the next sentence they are going to contradict themself?

RL357Mag, your definition of a hypocrite would definitely include me, as I am a gun owner and voting for Obama. You would be correct if the ONLY issue was gun control. However there are other issues to consider and for me, the majority of my viewpoints fall in line with Obama.

I mean like I said before, its a tough decision, as there isn't a candidate running exactly in line with how I think. I'm with McCain on gun control, and immigration. I'm with Obama on health care, iraq, environment, economy, energy, for example.

Also, I know this is a firearms forum, but we are in the "legal & politics" section of it .

As a side note, I assume from your pic you are in the corps. Just completed a 5 year enlistment with 3 deployments. Semper Fi.


My question is simple, you support the NRA yet probably oppose every candidate they endorse. Don't you feel like you are wasting your money? I promise you they won't be sending any money to the Osama, opps, I mean Obama campaign this year or anytime in the future. Just a thought.


Jables - The truth is, I am starting to realize that. NRA has spent most of the money they are getting attacking Obama. I suppose I should have assumed that. Its one of the things that inspired me to start this post. I WANT the NRA to defend the 2nd amendment, I just wish there was a way they could do it without indirectly taking a stance on other issues. Make sense? So I guess to answer your question - during election time I do feel like I'm wasting my money a bit!
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Old 09-07-2008, 06:14 PM   #17
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I was going to respond, but its not worth it.

Liberal NRA supporters - Legal and Activism
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Old 09-07-2008, 08:45 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by darkwolf228 View Post
The dilemma facing folks like me is we have to give something up. Do I vote with where I stand on the majority of issues? Or do I stick to a candidate who is in line with one very important issue only? In the end, most people will stick to the party of whom they are in-line with on the MOST issues.

I guess the question remains...What are these issues that you support?

Abortion? There has never been a sitting president that was not pro-life, yet the rules on the books have not changed to outlaw abortion. I don't expect it will change under mac/Palin either.

War in Iraq? Most people think that the war a bad idea and I think none of us connect Iraq to 9/11, however, our troops did have a noble objective (WMDs or NOT) and it would be far worse to put them in a strategically indefensible positions of assured death for the sake of some lefty's politics. We should bring them home...but in victory and safety, not under fire from the enemy. Such weakness would land the war on terror right in our back yards in unprecedented numbers.

Equal taxation? Tax the businesses, eh? In the history of modern and pre-historic economics when have raising the taxes of a corporation ever NOT been passed down to the customer?

Health insurance? Sure, wouldn't free health care be nice? But it's only free to people who don't work for a living. It's those of us that work and pay these massive premiums for our own insurance that have to cover the cost for those who get it for free. "Free" is not really free.

Education costs? Sure, the cost of a good education is a bitch. But how do you think these PHDs who teach our kids are going to get paid if all these non workers get a free ride? That's right! More taxes for you and me. When does this **** end?

What POSSIBLE issues can one have that is met by Barack Obama? He has hope, but he has no plan other than to raise people's taxes and take guns away from constitution loving Americans.

Quit thinking about what your country can do for you, and start thinking about... well, you know the rest. How about no one votes who hasn't served the country in public or military service? I am tired of ballots that smell of government cheese.
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Old 09-07-2008, 09:27 PM   #19
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+1000 Ineffable - your points are incontrovertible IMO, as usual!
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Old 09-07-2008, 09:34 PM   #20
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[QUOTE=darkwolf228;39578]Good discussion was started I think.

Just want to respond to a couple things.


RL357Mag, your definition of a hypocrite would definitely include me, as I am a gun owner and voting for Obama. You would be correct if the ONLY issue was gun control. However there are other issues to consider and for me, the majority of my viewpoints fall in line with Obama.

That is your right, and I do respect it, and served my country in part to protect your right to say, think, feel, and vote however you choose. However, being a discussion about Firearms and the NRA, my accusation stands...sorry.

I mean like I said before, its a tough decision, as there isn't a candidate running exactly in line with how I think. I'm with McCain on gun control, and immigration. I'm with Obama on health care, iraq, environment, economy, energy, for example.

I have the same dilemma. McCain doesn't represent my stand on many issues, but his stance is more in line than Obama's, and having served with honor I feel he is better suited to protecting our country, rather than giving it away or compromising our security and way of life.Also, I know this is a firearms forum, but we are in the "legal & politics" section of it .

As a side note, I assume from your pic you are in the corps. Just completed a 5 year enlistment with 3 deployments. Semper Fi.

Semper Fi to you too buddy! I was in the Corp. from '76 to '88 The pic is of my son who is currently deployed in Al Asaad, Iraq. I will leave it up until I leave this forum or he returns, whichever comes first!
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