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Old 05-27-2010, 12:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NGIB View Post
I'd say the answer is no as the Supreme Court has found (more than once) that the police are under no duty to protect you. Signs currently have no legal weight in GA, if however you are asked to leave you must - or be guilty of criminal trespass...
Exactly the same here in Indiana.
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Old 05-27-2010, 01:07 PM   #12
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INL but IMO

A pool is fenced and someone climbs the fence and gets hurt, not the fault of the pool owner. If someone walks thru an open gate to the pool and gets hurt, pool owner libel.

Property owner / business owner posts no firearms sign, someone gets shot in a hold-up, owner not libel. The no firearms sign was violated by the criminal. Owner liability would be covered by the sign you are thinking makes him open to liability.

Now if there is a no firearms sign and a woman gets raped, then I could see an issue of her being left defenseless by the owner’s policy.

My .02

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Old 05-27-2010, 04:45 PM   #13
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Uh, what I'm trying to say, in a very clumsy way; is that no gun zones represent a soft target for criminals. A State that does not recognize the right of it's citizens to self defense makes them potential victims of crime. I see culpable negligence here on behalf of the business, City, State or Federal authority who creates a gun free zone, thus removing the individuals right to self defense.

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Old 06-21-2012, 09:42 AM   #14
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I know it's an old thread, but I just had a conversation with an attorney about this a couple weeks ago. Yes, he is a Democrat on paper but his attitude is more Centrist.

My bank had the familiar handgun with a circle and slash sign posted on their door. I asked this guy about the legal aspects of creating an increased risk to customers by advertising that no law abiding person inside would be able to defend themselves. He thought about it for a few minutes and gave the following answer.

If it bothers you to go unarmed in the bank, use the drive-thru. The bank has no control over you while you are in your car. If they don't have a drive-thru, and you feel strongly enough about this, change banks. Whether or not they have increased liability is a moot point. You'll still be dead.

From a lawyer I thought it was a good answer.

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Old 06-21-2012, 11:00 AM   #15
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I would say the same sign would remove the liability from the business.

I would also say that with most cases, the most money and sharpest lawyer wins.

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Old 06-21-2012, 11:26 AM   #16
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Even though NY is The Bastion of Liberalism in the East, I have seen very few of these signs upstate. Maybe thats because most of the state other than Albany and NYC are big supporters of the right to bear arms and that would be a dumb sign to hang on a business that depends on actual customers to pay their bills!

Ironic thing, Dr's, Bars, Restaurants and Hospitals kill more folks doing their business normally than Handguns in their establishment would ever cause! Thats a hoot, you cant bring a gun in here but I might kill you with the botulism laced food I serve, send a drunk down the road driving a 3000 lb automobile or give your wife a botched Boob Job that kills her!

Property owners rights are very important, if someone doesnt want guns on their property, that is their right. Announcing that with a sign makes statements I wouldnt want to make publicly if I were a business owner but thats their right if they wish to risk the lives of their patrons for a political statement. I dont know a single person that would go to a business just because they cater to anti-gun flakes so I just dont get their point!

The outcome is synonymous with saying, "This is the perfect place to commit a crime, nobody on this premises can defend themselves"! Like an idiot putting a sign on their lawn that says they oppose the 2nd amendment, might as well say, "Come-on in Mr Crook"!

Myself, I will vote with my feet, anyone that doesnt allow the free practice of our Constitutional Right to carry might have objections with other rights as well' They dont get my Business, I wont purposely subject myself or my family to any risk that could be present because of that sign.

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Old 06-21-2012, 05:51 PM   #17
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I see it this way. As a business/property owner I have the right to put up a no firearms sign. You as free citizen have the right to not set foot upon my property or do business with me. Folks, we cannot have it both ways. If we want the freedom to CC, they also should have the freedom to say "sorry, no guns allowed". If you don't like it, shop someplace else.

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Old 06-21-2012, 07:23 PM   #18
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Afraid I have to agree with JD1969. One of the founding blocks of this country was the right to have private property. As a private property owner, I have (or should have until the govt tells me I can't) ultimate authority. On the other hand, I don't like being told I can't carry either; but, if a private property owner understands the wisdom of private property ownership rights, they should understand 2nd Amendment rights also. Not always gonna happen that way but I can use my rose colored glasses if I wish.

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Old 06-22-2012, 01:37 AM   #19
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I agree with both of you and certainly respect their right to set the rules on their own property. I dont carry and likely never will, it really doesnt affect the way I have to map out my day. People where I live rarely if ever shoot each other, I wouldnt live where they did; If it gets that way here, then I will carry a bazooka and move!

Those that carry legally may find it uncomfortable to leave their piece in the car, I dont blame them, they carry for a myriad of reasons. I just dont think it makes any sense to feed into the fear mongering about guns by accepting limitations based on bias and misinformation.

Legal firearms owners are infinitely less likely to harm anyone with their firearm than a motorist with their vehicle of choice, be it a Snowmobile, Automobile, 4 Wheeler or a Semi! More people die in cars than are killed in gun related non combat related Deaths each year. 17,000 vs 49,000. The vehicles were accidents by law abiding citizens who made a mistake, the 16,000 are homicides by crooks that dont read sign not law abiding citizens who do.

In NY City, only the Cops and the crooks carry firearms but the crooks outnumber the cops 100 to one, just look at Attica, Sing Sing and Fishkill! For every one in prison, there are 4 more that arent. Keeping legal handguns out of the hands of citizens hasnt helped them in NY City as of yet. I feel safer when I know someone other than a crook at the end of the bar or a cop 20 minutes away may be able to prevent a bloodbath, just the mere possibility of that happening has the effect of encouraging the riff raff to go elsewhere.

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Old 06-25-2012, 04:46 AM   #20
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I prefer to patronize businesses that display signs like "Criminals prefer unarmed victim s." & NRA. There may not be alot of logic involved in a drug motivated criminal mind, but a shop that has a sign saying no firearms allowed seems an easier target.

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