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Old 01-15-2013, 05:46 PM   #21
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No it's not. It's stupid. Only the law abiding will follow it. Criminals will ignore it.

It would also be unenforceable. It is a needless burden on the law abiding population. Also, private transactions should remain private. I should not have to check in with a government agency to sell my property.

Considering that about 1% or less of crimes were committed by a handgun that was sold by one individual to another, and there is no telling how many of those were actually straw purchases, it is essentially another pointless law.

We already have too many pointless laws in this country.

Sometimes it ain't about the 2nd Amendment. Sometimes it's about telling the government enough is enough.
I agree with this, its unenforceable.. How are "they" going to know when you bought it?
Lets say this does go into effect, I go up the street and buy a gun privately,
Besides me and the guy I bought it off of, who knows that I even bought a gun?

All but three of my guns were bought from private sellers, and are unregistered..
I only own a Arisaka, Mosin, and a shotgun...
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Old 01-15-2013, 07:12 PM   #22
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I am a firm believer that the government does not need to know anything about my privately owned items. Whether it's a firearm or a can of mace or a new pait of boots. Isn't that part of being free? I guarentee if we r forced to register firearms you all will have to write me in prison to let me know what's going on on the forum

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Old 01-15-2013, 07:53 PM   #23
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I agree with this, its unenforceable.. How are "they" going to know when you bought it?
Lets say this does go into effect, I go up the street and buy a gun privately,
Besides me and the guy I bought it off of, who knows that I even bought a gun?

All but three of my guns were bought from private sellers, and are unregistered..
I only own a Arisaka, Mosin, and a shotgun...
They would not need to enforce it guys...

Any crime gun can already be traced from the manufacturer to the last "retail" purchaser who bought it from an FFL.

A gun you sold privately "or had stolen" is discovered at a crime scene, it gets traced back to YOU...the last retail purchaser!

Now you get to proove that you sold it, or it was stolen, BEFORE "universal background checks" were instituted!

Good Luck...hello felony conviction...bye bye gun rights.

UBC's are not about public safety, they ARE about criminalizing gun owners who can't afford to defend themselves in court...

How many 50 year olds being dragged away to the pokey would it take for millions of American to decide that guns ate just too much potential trouble to own?

Make no mistake gentlemen, our adversaries are NOT interested in limiting violence...they ARE INTERESTED IN CONTROLLING US!

Now...who said universal background checks were NO BIG DEAL?

Please people... Wake the F.U... Remove head from arse... And join/donate to the NRA! NOW!

Tack
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Old 01-15-2013, 08:04 PM   #24
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I strongly believe most citizens have forgotten the purpose of our government and I believe this has happened by design.
This quote was taken from Thomas Paine's "Common Sense", a book that unfortunately was never offered to me in school, or to my children in their school.
"SOME writers have so confounded society with government, as to leave little or no distinction between them; whereas they are not only different, but have different origins. Society is produced by our wants, and government by our wickedness; the former promotes our happiness POSITIVELY by uniting our affections, the latter NEGATIVELY by restraining our vices. The one encourages intercourse, the other creates distinctions. The first is a patron, the last a punisher.

Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer. Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him, out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others."
Why is this not taught in every school?

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Old 01-15-2013, 08:28 PM   #25
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The tree that does not bend and isnt flexible will eventually break. We have to be smart. Giving an inch isnt giving a mile. Its giving an inch to prevent losing a mile. If we stand here saying enough is enough, dont engage in conversation and help influence the direction of the political climate, we will lose alot more than you think. A majority of politicians, both at the local, state and federal level are hell bent on passing gun control laws, no matter the fall out. They are willing to expend whatever political power or clout they have. They see and lsiten to the vocal gun control advocates and use the Sandy Hook and Aurora CO disasters as a rallying point to push their goals through. They want to be seen as the politicians who were tough and got the job done on gun control because they think that is what is going to help them get re-elected. The fact is clear: gun control laws will be passed by states and by the federal government. Just look at NY. If we stand here and refuse to work with them, they will ignore us and write us off as "gun nuts". But if we appraoch them and attempt to engage in reasonable debate and discussions, they will not be able to blow us off as unreasonable "gun nuts" and will give us more power to ensure our positions are honored. If they ignore us after we attempt to engage in a civil debate, we then can toughen up our stance and fight, making the gun control advocates the unreasonable ones. Put them on the defense, make them look like the bad guys here.
Background checks are not a big deal. Yes only law abiding citizens will follow it. Thats my contention about other laws such as an assault weapons ban and ban on high capacity magazines. But we already go through background checks when we buy our gun from the dealer. Its just like when you sell a car to someone, you have to file the appropriate paperwork with the state. We have to make tactical decisions and know when and where to fight. Just like in any real world combat situation or a fight, you have to know where and when to give up ground, where to strike and how to strike.

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Old 01-15-2013, 08:41 PM   #26
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We've already given enough and at some point (now) we have to stand up for our liberty and our rights. This goverment is completely out of line and has gone way beyond any powers they were originally intended to have under the constitution. They don't have the right to superscede the 2nd amendment, it's not a power granted to them. They, and especially the president, are overstepping their authority in this matter. They simply don't have the constitutional authority to do any of the things they are attempting to do and we need to say RIGHT NOW, NO, enough is enough. We won't give an inch because next year it will be another inch then another until we're all serfs and peasants with no power whatsoever.

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Old 01-15-2013, 08:59 PM   #27
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We've already given enough and at some point (now) we have to stand up for our liberty and our rights. This goverment is completely out of line and has gone way beyond any powers they were originally intended to have under the constitution. They don't have the right to superscede the 2nd amendment, it's not a power granted to them. They, and especially the president, are overstepping their authority in this matter. They simply don't have the constitutional authority to do any of the things they are attempting to do and we need to say RIGHT NOW, NO, enough is enough. We won't give an inch because next year it will be another inch then another until we're all serfs and peasants with no power whatsoever.
Bingo...

I do not need my sporting rifles for hunting or self Defence...my bolt guns and pistols fill those roles.

My sporting rifles exist for 1 purpose and only 1 purpose. To guarantee my liberty...and god help the fool who comes looking for them.

Enough IS Enough... To many of us are too old to run and to proud to kneel.

Our President likens himself to Abraham Lincoln...keep pushing dumb ass...you may don that Top Hat yet!

Tack
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:07 PM   #28
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When we stand up and say we wont budge or give an inch and even more restrictive laws are passed, what do we do then? We learn alot from dictators, mainly how power corrupts and how the citizens need to stand up for their rights. But we also learned that strictly sticking to your ideals and not compromising has brought them down. How many military battles have been lost because the commander didnt want to give ground and compromise? We see the climnate of politics now. We compromise and give a little ground. When this settles down, it will be easier to gain back that little ground we gave up instead of trying to refight the battle and gain back a whole chunk of things. For example, we let them pass a high capacity magazine limit, but not ban assault weapons. In a year or 2, we can get that small law reversed. But it will alot harder to reverse an assault weapons ban that includes a limit on magazine capacity.

I am all for less government. I will not give up my firearms. I will not surrender my rights. But an assault weapons ban or a limit on magazine capacity does not conflict with the second ammendment. Look at the judicial rulings. The courts have sided with the bans. So any legal action against a ban faces a monumental battle to win. We have to see the climate and attitudes of the country to be able to fight an effective battle. These laws will pass, we need to influence them to minimize their impact and then work to repeal them.

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Old 01-15-2013, 09:10 PM   #29
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Bingo...

I do not need my sporting rifles for hunting or self Defence...my bolt guns and pistols fill those roles.

My sporting rifles exist for 1 purpose and only 1 purpose. To guarantee my liberty...and god help the fool who comes looking for them.

Enough IS Enough... To many of us are too old to run and to proud to kneel.

Our President likens himself to Abraham Lincoln...keep pushing dumb ass...you may don that Top Hat yet!

Tack
Tack,

I hope I am not out of line here sir, but after reading many of your posts on many different things, I may love you.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:14 PM   #30
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Requiring background checks for any sale of a firearm is reasonable. If a private citizen wants to sell a gun to another person, it is not a big deal to go to a FFL dealer and have them complete the paperwork.

As for high capacity magazines, I do not know of any sound, logical, reasonable response to a ban on them. Besides the fact that there are so many in peoples hands that a ban would not decrease their use.

I am a stout proponent of the Second Ammendment. I own multiple firearms, including an AR and other "assault style weapons". But I also know that there is no way to prevent some laws passing this year. We have to give some ground or face highly restrictive laws. Look to NY as an example.
Required background checks on private sales would require registration of all firearms currently in private hands other than the original purchasor who bought the firearm from an FFL. Historically, registration is a step toward confiscation. I'll pass on that. I would end up with all of my firearms becoming illegal due to non-registration. If you care to explain how their proposed requirement for FFL-involvement in all private sales could be accomplished/enforced without first registering all firearms in private hands, I would be PRETTY DAMN IMPRESSED. Edit* OK, Tack, i'm pretty impressed; i guess i should have stated "fairly enforced".

I don't see a single reasonable argument against full/standard/factory capacity magazines.

I call complete bull**** on you being a supporter of the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America. Were you referring to some other "constitution" or just trolling some BS?
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Last edited by orangello; 01-15-2013 at 09:17 PM.
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