Just a general question on block 10 of the 4473 - Page 3
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of FirearmsTalk.com!    
Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism > Just a general question on block 10 of the 4473

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-14-2014, 01:56 PM   #21
Moderator
FTF_MODERATOR.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
c3shooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Third bunker on the right,Central Virginia
Posts: 17,497
Liked 9919 Times on 4270 Posts
Likes Given: 1563

Default

I am not a lawyer either (Mom and Dad were married, so I am disqualified) But NO- you CANNOT leave it blank on a 4473 per instructions of the BATFE.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/federal-firearms-licensees/recent-nics-updates-1/nics-update-on-july-31-2012

AND since this form is SUPPOSED to stay AT THE DEALER'S PREMISES- what good does collecting that information do?

Re: What Would Jesus Do? In the case of Roberto Jesus Felipe Gonzales- he would answer "Si".

Re: Race- was always disappointed that "Human" "Virginian" or "Indy 500" were not offered as options...

__________________

What we have here is... failure- to communicate.

c3shooter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2014, 02:04 PM   #22
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Northeast San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,709
Liked 804 Times on 537 Posts
Likes Given: 51

Default Just a general question on block 10 of the 4473

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMcCool View Post
What would Jesus do?

He would check the non-Hispanic block and be given a "delayed" response


Sent from my iPhone using Firearms Talk
__________________

this message was sent using my Barrett 50 straight to your brain.

seancslaughter is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2014, 03:10 PM   #23
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yunus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: |,Maryland
Posts: 5,014
Liked 1278 Times on 753 Posts
Likes Given: 402

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
I am not a lawyer either (Mom and Dad were married, so I am disqualified) But NO- you CANNOT leave it blank on a 4473 per instructions of the BATFE.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/federal-firearms-licensees/recent-nics-updates-1/nics-update-on-july-31-2012

AND since this form is SUPPOSED to stay AT THE DEALER'S PREMISES- what good does collecting that information do?

Re: What Would Jesus Do? In the case of Roberto Jesus Felipe Gonzales- he would answer "Si".

Re: Race- was always disappointed that "Human" "Virginian" or "Indy 500" were not offered as options...
Clearly it is a required field as the ATF states, I'll edit my post.

That is very strange though to require 10B race to be filled out could constitute falsifying a form.

Example, a person born of South American decent, what do they fill out? They are not any of the races in 10B yet they are required to choose one but they are also required not to provide false information.

I think on the next 4473 I fill out I'm going to select all the boxes.
__________________

"Good people drink good beer."
Hunter S. Thompson

Yunus is offline  
orangello Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2014, 03:23 PM   #24
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Mercator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,136
Liked 3253 Times on 2245 Posts
Likes Given: 1605

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yunus View Post
Clearly it is a required field as the ATF states, I'll edit my post.

That is very strange though to require 10B race to be filled out could constitute falsifying a form.

Example, a person born of South American decent, what do they fill out? They are not any of the races in 10B yet they are required to choose one but they are also required not to provide false information.

I think on the next 4473 I fill out I'm going to select all the boxes.
Or select "Other" (if it is there, AFAIR). It beats me how this line of questioning has not been challenged as unconstitutional.
__________________
Mercator is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2014, 03:56 PM   #25
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yunus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: |,Maryland
Posts: 5,014
Liked 1278 Times on 753 Posts
Likes Given: 402

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercator View Post
Or select "Other" (if it is there, AFAIR). It beats me how this line of questioning has not been challenged as unconstitutional.
Other is not a choice, I sent a question to the ATF asking for clarification, I'm guessing I'll get a standard response or a "follow the directions" response.
__________________

"Good people drink good beer."
Hunter S. Thompson

Yunus is offline  
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2014, 08:06 PM   #26
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
orangello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19,154
Liked 5737 Times on 3362 Posts
Likes Given: 4877

Default

[wonders about writing in "cracker"]

Probably won't be buying as much on paper in the future anyways, just for spite.

__________________

Dead Bears, the only good kind.

orangello is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 01:40 PM   #27
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yunus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: |,Maryland
Posts: 5,014
Liked 1278 Times on 753 Posts
Likes Given: 402

Default

I got a response from the ATF

Quote:
Thank you for your recent inquiry to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). This is in response to your email in which you inquired about properly completing the ATF F 4473, specifically Question 10.b.

Pursuant to an Office of Management and Budget (OMB) Notice of Decision, published in the Federal Register on October 30, 1997, all Federal agencies requiring collection of race and ethnicity information on administrative forms and records, among other programs, were required to begin collecting this information. The standards of the OMB directive consist of five categories for data on race: American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian, Black or African American, Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, and White. Also, there are two categories for data on ethnicity: "Hispanic or Latino," and "Not Hispanic or Latino." The mandatory format for collecting this data became effective on January 1, 2003.

Therefore, as necessitated by OMB, ATF was required to include the information in the required format on the revised Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473 (April 2012 Edition). The purpose for requiring prospective purchasers of firearms to identify their ethnic and racial background is to better enable Federal firearms licensees to identify the purchaser during the background check portion of a firearms transaction, and aid law enforcement in accurately tracing firearms found in crimes.

Information, including questions and answers (Q&A’s), regarding the revised ATF Form 4473 was published on the ATF website. The information can be found at: http://www.atf.gov/faq-page/371#t371n13231.
Here's the key part of their link

Quote:
Answered Item 10.a on the ATF Form 4473 . Do I have to answer 10.b. as well?
Yes. You must select at least one race in item 10.b. regardless of ethnicity designation selected in item 10.a. Both items must be answered. Ethnicity and race are further defined below:

Ethnicity–This refers to a person’s heritage. Persons of Cuban, Mexican, Puerto Rican, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race, are considered Hispanic or Latino. Any other ethnicity that does not fall within those indicated, please select the closest representation.
Race–More than one response may be selected.
American Indian or Alaska Native- A person having origins in any of the originalpeoples of North and South America (including Central America), and who maintains a tribal affiliation or community attachment.
Asian- A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.
Black or African American- A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa. Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander-A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.
White- A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.
If you can't lie on the form and you must fill out question 10.b then I don't know how a person of the America's who no longer maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment can legally complete a 4473.

Any NRA board members that are hispanic? I would like to send this to them and let them know they can't buy any more guns from an FFL.
__________________

"Good people drink good beer."
Hunter S. Thompson

Yunus is offline  
Mercator Likes This 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 02:29 PM   #28
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Mercator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,136
Liked 3253 Times on 2245 Posts
Likes Given: 1605

Default

So they are just doing their job, "pursuant" (love the word) to the OMB directive. (Who knew? It is in the chain of command?)

I'd like to know where the NRA stands on this. And where is the ACLU when we need it.

Lastly. They are serious about ID'eing someone based on what the person states? What if I think I am a racial Asian - you're gonna do DNA at the gunshop? What a...

__________________
Mercator is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 06:41 PM   #29
Retired
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
danf_fl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LA (Lower Alabama),FL
Posts: 10,832
Liked 3273 Times on 1884 Posts
Likes Given: 1397

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercator View Post
What if I think I am a racial Asian - you're gonna do DNA at the gunshop? What a...
I know what some people have put in their mouths. And I'm not taking a DNA sample.
__________________

Amendment II:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Life Member NRA
Life Member NAHC
Former President of the ECPT (Eifel Combat Pistol Team)

danf_fl is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2014, 08:33 PM   #30
FTF_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
orangello's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 19,154
Liked 5737 Times on 3362 Posts
Likes Given: 4877

Default

Well, I am from "The South", and that is in 'Merica, so I guess I am "Hispanic/latino" and "white" [checks pastiness level] with a hint of "native 'Merican".

They need a "Mutt" or "Other" block for most of us, TBH.

__________________

Dead Bears, the only good kind.

orangello is offline  
 
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Firearms Forum Replies Last Post
Surgeon General of the US question danf_fl Politics, Religion and Controversy 4 08-04-2013 09:33 PM
General shotgun question Ky_Rebel68 General Shotgun Discussion 14 04-04-2013 01:35 PM
general question old gun refinish toid Engraving & Refinishing 10 02-13-2013 07:34 PM
Low pro gas block question Tenderribbs AR-15 Discussion 1 02-10-2013 05:46 PM
General question Benning Boy Auto & Semi-Auto Discussion 5 07-08-2010 04:24 PM