Just a general question on block 10 of the 4473 - Page 2
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Old 03-14-2014, 02:59 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by danf_fl View Post
http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

Understanding that the 4473 stays with the person doing the transfer until the business closes, what use is block 10a and 10b?

Is this a way for the BATF to enact a form of discrimination?
http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/

I wonder what being a Hispanic or non-Hispanic has to do with purchasing a firearm. Also, why should race and other info be included. What is required is the identification of the transferee.

How does the information provided on Hispanic or non-Hispanic, or race help determine if one is prohibited under law from receiving a firearm?
The dealers think it is not mandatory. True or not, I don't care enough to test the system myself, I just want my gun.

I think it's a question of proper ID. If you check "black" today, the Feds look you up and find that you were "white" last year, that'll give 'em a pause.
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Old 03-14-2014, 03:18 AM   #12
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Sadly, I know more about EEOC and ERI (Ethnicity and Race Indicator) than most of you will want to know... here goes

First of all this is a piece of data, specifically a field that is made up by the government and specifically for EEOC purposes. There are six possible true responses to this field and it should be two separate fields as it attempts to combine Ethnicity and Race into a single field when they are two separate items. Lets start with the first part, Ethnicity, you are either Hispanic or NOT Hispanic there are no other choices to be made, but I'm White or Asian you say... those are Races and not ethnicity which is ONLY covered in the first portion of this field/question which asks if you are Hispanic and takes precedence over EVERYTHING ELSE.

So now we have covered the first part, you are either Hispanic or you are not. Now the fun begins. Are you Asian and White, NO! You are just Asian, are you Black or African American and White, NO! You are Black or African American, are you American Indian or Alaska Native and White, NO! You are American Indian or Alaska Native, are you Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander and White, NO! You are "Two or more races". That's where it gets interesting, what if an individual is Asian and African American or Black you ask, that person is Two or more races but if they are Asian and White then they are Asian only.

Are you confused yet? I know I am not confused but just dumbfounded by the logic.

Simplified version
Prioritize Ethnicity of which there are only 2 options, Hispanic or NOT.
Then prioritize Asian, Black, Native American
Deprioritize Native Hawaiian and White
Then if they happen to be more than a single race go with two or more but ONLY if they are not only 1 of the prioritized races which trump White and Native Hawaiian. All of this is only true if they are not Hispanic because that trumps everything.


http://www.fedscope.opm.gov/rno/eri.asp

https://ehr.nbc.gov/datastandards/dataStandard/1442

Do the powers that be use this logic to deny firearms sales. I don't think so but they do use this bastardized logic to say X number or % of 4473's were filled out by the following groups.

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Old 03-14-2014, 03:20 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Mercator View Post
The dealers think it is not mandatory. True or not, I don't care enough to test the system myself, I just want my gun.

I think it's a question of proper ID. If you check "black" today, the Feds look you up and find that you were "white" last year, that'll give 'em a pause.
They would run into several CFR's that take issue with that. ERI is a VOLUNTARY field, now could they get you on falsifying a form, I don't know and I'm not a lawyer but there would be a lot of leniency when it comes to claiming an Ethnicity or Race on the form.
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Old 03-14-2014, 03:30 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yunus View Post
Sadly, I know more about EEOC and ERI (Ethnicity and Race Indicator) than most of you will want to know... here goes

First of all this is a piece of data, specifically a field that is made up by the government and specifically for EEOC purposes. There are six possible true responses to this field and it should be two separate fields as it attempts to combine Ethnicity and Race into a single field when they are two separate items. Lets start with the first part, Ethnicity, you are either Hispanic or NOT Hispanic there are no other choices to be made, but I'm White or Asian you say... those are Races and not ethnicity which is ONLY covered in the first portion of this field/question which asks if you are Hispanic and takes precedence over EVERYTHING ELSE.

So now we have covered the first part, you are either Hispanic or you are not. Now the fun begins. Are you Asian and White, NO! You are just Asian, are you Black or African American and White, NO! You are Black or African American, are you American Indian or Alaska Native and White, NO! You are American Indian or Alaska Native, are you Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander and White, NO! You are "Two or more races". That's where it gets interesting, what if an individual is Asian and African American or Black you ask, that person is Two or more races but if they are Asian and White then they are Asian only.

Are you confused yet? I know I am not confused but just dumbfounded by the logic.

Simplified version
Prioritize Ethnicity of which there are only 2 options, Hispanic or NOT.
Then prioritize Asian, Black, Native American
Deprioritize Native Hawaiian and White
Then if they happen to be more than a single race go with two or more but ONLY if they are not only 1 of the prioritized races which trump White and Native Hawaiian. All of this is only true if they are not Hispanic because that trumps everything.


http://www.fedscope.opm.gov/rno/eri.asp

https://ehr.nbc.gov/datastandards/dataStandard/1442

Do the powers that be use this logic to deny firearms sales. I don't think so but they do use this bastardized logic to say X number or % of 4473's were filled out by the following groups.
Wait...

Where exactly is the logic?
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Old 03-14-2014, 03:33 AM   #15
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Wait...

Where exactly is the logic?
Sorry I should have clarified, government logic is being applied to design the definitions.
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Old 03-14-2014, 03:39 AM   #16
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Where have you seen a government form with no BS at all? This is a rather small nugget...

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Old 03-14-2014, 03:40 AM   #17
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Sorry I should have clarified, government logic is being applied to design the definitions.
Oh, government logic... ok, that explains it.

So, I've left that part blank on employment applications, various medical forms, even a few for the Army...

Why couldn't we be able to leave it blank on this form? (ironic that your SS# is optional)
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Old 03-14-2014, 03:48 AM   #18
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I can't help but wonder why Hispanic takes priority... Isn't this a form of what some would call "reverse racism?" Personally I don't like that term. Racism is racism. But I use it sometimes because its so common and occasionally I actually want to be understood when I ramble.

Speaking of rambling... Shall I begin now or later?

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Old 03-14-2014, 04:36 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by JW357 View Post
I can't help but wonder why Hispanic takes priority... Isn't this a form of what some would call "reverse racism?" Personally I don't like that term. Racism is racism. But I use it sometimes because its so common and occasionally I actually want to be understood when I ramble.

Speaking of rambling... Shall I begin now or later?
Begin now, unless you have something better to do...
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason609 View Post
Oh, government logic... ok, that explains it.

So, I've left that part blank on employment applications, various medical forms, even a few for the Army...

Why couldn't we be able to leave it blank on this form? (ironic that your SS# is optional)
The policy when you leave that blank on a government employment application is for the supervisor or hiring manager to "best guess" your information.
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Last edited by Yunus; 03-14-2014 at 02:11 PM. Reason: Removed incorrect information from post
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