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Old 03-22-2013, 07:25 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by 1911love View Post
I agree with this. Thomas Jefferson said, "No free man shall be debarred the use of arms." I think all free men should have access, even felons. I feel that if you commit a violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, etc you shouldn't be allowed out of prison. These violent people have proven that can't be trusted in society, so keep them locked down. Plain and simple, if you aren't locked up you should have all your rights. But...we don't have room bc we are more concerned with giving drug users mandatory minimums so the real threats are on a revolving door plan.
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I like that previous LA statute they quoted; it seemed to limit the prohibition to violent-type felonies as it should be.
These two posts say it far better than I can. I have to agree. A non-violent felony should not permanently remove a persons rights, if it was a non-violent offense and they have served their time, return the rights they lost during their sentence. On the other hand, if it violent, hang 'em publicly so that others will see what happens to rapists, murderers, and gang members involved i drive-bys. Others will catch on fairly quick, and they will learn from the mistakes theseMFers made. Crime control that will work!

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Originally Posted by bluez View Post
"felonies" originally only desribed the msot dangerous crimes committed by people unfit for society.
But it has been broaded to mean all sorts of things and the term has been extremly diluted.

But the laws limiting "felons" have staid.

Neraly everyone in this fourm depending how the wind bloes might be made a felon by the stroke of a pen.

Lets approach this in a thinking manner nad realize the meaning of "felon" has changed from our parents time.
QFT!! If proof of this is needed, just look at NY and the "SAFE Act". How many LEOs are now in danger of becoming felons due to the fact that they own an AR so they can practice with the same style rifle they are issued, but don't want to be limited by their department's ammo budget? How many DOC officers do the same so they can train on the same style rifle they use in the towers? I can think of atleast 2 dozen that I have gone to the local range with more than once, and atleast 10 that I am on a first name basis with. All this due to a few strokes of Cuomo's pen.

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A very good point. The Felony today is a simple claim by some one that you hit them. We have words that are not PC which can be parlayed into felony counts. Pointing ones finger while saying "Bang"?

As far as using a sentence to satisfy a victims feeling has never been a part of American Justice. That comes under vengeance not justice. Police officers are being disarmed and fired because a girl friend in High School claims the officer was violent in his youth. Do we need to revisit gun laws and felony, yes. Are felony counts and PC conduct being used for pseudo gun control, of course.
Sad but true. I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:12 AM   #22
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The punishment should fit the crime? That is an often quoted statement. Who's vision of the punishment shall we choose? Will the vision of the anti-death penalty churches prevail? Will the very pro-execution factions prevail?
Well, in my opinion, I say we go medieval when it comes to certain crimes.

However, I for one, am glad I don't make policy for punishment.

Therefore, we need to get this country back to being the Constitutional Republic that it was created to be. And WE vote on what laws will be set in place as well as what those punishments should be for violating them.

Though, this is all useless banter on all sides, as there is no way a drastic change is going to be made without the citizens taking this country back from the politicians. And I don't see this happening without a new revolution (not that I am conconing one).
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:45 PM   #23
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If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times. If these felons are so dangerous to society that they are not allowed their rights when released they should not be released. I can kind of understand a trial waiting period. But parole pretty much takes care of that. They can have limitations of all kinds there anyway. Once done the person has done their time and paid their debt. If this is not the case then don't release them. Otherwise there is no reason for them not to be free citizens in the true sense of the word.

I have often wondered if the F word is used so liberally (pun intended) so as to keep people from being free citizens taking people out of almost all aspects of society. No vote, no protection, no problem.
I have in the past often talked about modern state run slavery. When you mark someone a felon, as things stand today, you have essentially made them a permenant dependent of the state even AFTER serving their debt to society.

It is among the biggest issues facing minorities today, and a shocking number of them dont even realize it because it has become so common place.
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:57 PM   #24
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Current law does no such thing. I know this is a firearms forum, and apparently most people on here perceive firearms as the only means of protection, but, they aren't.



Who decides that the debt is paid off? The parole board? Certainly not Society.

And certainly not the family and loved ones of those that were murdered. Same as most rape victims, they'll never feel any "debt" is paid off.

Or, are you just referring to instances where the victims were not physically harmed? If so, then what do YOU say to the child that is having nightmares of the boogeyman that broke into his/her house? Went into his/her room?

Then again, this is all on the false assumption that none of them will be repeat offenders....
The people of the state through their election of state legislators, govenor, and judges have set the bar for what is required to repay a debt to society.

I understand your argument, but a victims family isnt exactly impartial as a jury is which explains why we are tried by a jury of our peers and not the family of the victims.

The child in your theoritical scenario must be the offspring of a felon or other persons not in possession of firearms. When my kid asks me about the boogy man that broke in, I will look her in the eyes and say, "dont worry, daddy made sure that boogy man is never coming back." This, of course, something that a convicted felon could not provide for his family; security.

We argue against liberal gun grabbers that an unarmed populace is nothing more than slavery, while an armed populace is a citizenry. Yet you would argue WITH the gun grabbers against the non-violent felon?

No, I stand by my previous statement. Being labled a felon today is the same as being made a second rate citizen. I can conceive no argument that can overcome this most basic of logics...
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:06 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by orangello View Post
I like that previous LA statute they quoted; it seemed to limit the prohibition to violent-type felonies as it should be.
I agree because my Dad has a friend who can't buy anymore guns since he got a Domestic charge and he didn't even touch her. Just because he was yelling.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:32 PM   #26
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The Liberal charge that a gun owner is always the problem is even spreading among gun owners. The anti-gun move can now extend to words or expressions.

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Old 03-22-2013, 08:36 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by nitestalker View Post
The Liberal charge that a gun owner is always the problem is even spreading among gun owners. The anti-gun move can now extend to words or expressions.
Its sad...but I dont think its that new is it?

Gun owners are usually the answer to the problem in my experience...
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:43 PM   #28
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Also, media coverage should be limited, that way those responsible for ensuring that the guilty party is actually the one being arrested and tried can do so. And that the prosecutors aren't being rushed into trial by the people (like with Casey Anthony).
I find this interesting. Ideally, media coverage should encourage parties involved to act in a fair and legal manner, as if they were being observed by a supervisor. In practice, media coverage seems to encourage overly dramatic testimony & evidence presentation, not to mention sensationalization of the various parties to the crime. Some kind of standards might be helpful, but there is no objective party to promulgate these standards. The media is motivated by money to get coverage their audiences will enjoy and watch; the defense team and prosecutors are motivated to get coverage that will persuade the viewers to support their contentions as to guilt/innocence and circumstances of the crime. The judiciary is, IMO, motivated to hold on to its judicial power & influence, presumably by attempting to appear just, learned, and whatever else they think the viewers are wanting in a judge.

Once again in America, a standard is needed, but who is trustworthy to establish it?
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:50 PM   #29
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I feel that if you commit a violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, etc you shouldn't be allowed out of prison. These violent people have proven that can't be trusted in society, so keep them locked down. Plain and simple, if you aren't locked up you should have all your rights
There is a debate on weather violent people should be ever released from jail but the law is what it is and these people do get released. They can obtain firearms illegal but that would be illegal and if caught would go back to jail. So in my opinion to let these people legally get firearms in crazy they give up the right when they committed the offence so if they can't legally get a firearm tough.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:55 PM   #30
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There is a debate on weather violent people should be ever released from jail but the law is what it is and these people do get released. They can obtain firearms illegal but that would be illegal and if caught would go back to jail. So in my opinion to let these people legally get firearms in crazy they give up the right when they committed the offence so if they can't legally get a firearm tough.
I would counter that point with history. Yes... more felons "re offend" than don't... but what options do they have?

1. Felon... no one is hiring you.
2. Felon... no right to vote.
3. Felon... prison only taught you 1 thing, to be MORE violent.

If there safe enough to be on the street, barring them from gun ownership makes no more sense than gun free zones. Those felons who would use a gun in crime will do it regardless of the prohibition... and those who would not are just as defenseless as the lemmings sipping latte's behind the gun buster signs at the local mall.

If you've served your deb't to society and our elected officials deem you safe enough to be on the steets then all rights should be returned.

Perhaps X Cons would be less violent if they were not relegated to the life of a slave?

And if not... hopefully they select me as there next victim. Guarantee I'll be there last.

Tack
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