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Old 10-26-2013, 01:29 PM   #21
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Honestly, I know you are all very intelligent, but I believe you are missing one major point.

It is very expedient to trot out the mother of our most recent, unfortunate and tragic gun death victim. No person in their right mind doesn't empathize with the heart wrenching sight of a parent who has recently lost a child to any accident or crime.

These are sight and sound bites that, in the moment, are more powerful than any logical, reasoned debate/argument/discussion.

Most people like to think of themselves as logical beings, we are not! We are emotional beings that like to justify our actions through logical explanations. How else do you explain advertising in today's market. There is no logic to any of today's advertising, they simply appeal to our emotions, because they know from decades of testing and evaluation that we are indeed emotional beings.

But like the tortoise and the hare, the methodical, daily assertion of the truth and our constitutional rights will win the race.
i am not heartless and without emotion, when it comes to senseless tradegies, of unarmed people and children being cut down by some mentally deranged individual, but still place the blame where it belongs. on the person who commited the atrocious act, not the inanimate object they used to commit the violent act.

the liberal gun haters like to stir emotions to further their agenga, that guns are evil. guns were and never are the root of that evil, but are the actions of mentally defective people. what is shameful, is their using these people to further their cause and agenda on the disarming of LAC's.

it's also that those of us that are Pro-2nd amendment, tend to focus on facts and the evidence that says people commit horrible deeds with guns, not the guns themselves. that even if guns never existed in the first place, horrible and violent tradegies would still occur because of the evil that exists in certain people who are willing to kill other people for their own reasons. they would just use something other than a gun tocommit these horrible acts of violence.
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Old 10-26-2013, 03:28 PM   #22
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Axxe55,

I agree with most of what you are saying, but guns do make it easier to commit serious crimes.

They cover distance - you don't need to confront the BG at close range like with a baseball bat or golf club. Guns can make the little guy a tough guy and I think this is what we see in a lot of cases. The little guy can't engage in a physical confrontation because he will lose.

I enjoy your posts!

===

And all the head line/story lines we read. The Zimmerman case. Although I still have questions that will never be answered, I think he did a good job in keeping his cool. He and his attorneys stayed focused on the issues.

The recent shooting by the officers of the 13 year old Andy Lopez with the "Toy" gun. I absolutely despise the title of this story. We can thank our media for that one. A BB gun, pellet gun are not toys. People use them for hunting smaller game. And who would know what it was from 30 feet away? Someone mentioned the gun he had didn't have a full barrel. Gee, with all the thousands of makes and models who would know if it is or isn't a toy vs. a custom deadly weapon?

Hindsight is always 20/20. I feel for the officers on scene that felt threatened. Perhaps they could have shot to lame rather than kill - but I wasn't there so I cannot judge or criticize like some feel they can.

What is it going to take for people to realize others take these things seriously. There is plenty of publicity. How you handle a gun of any kind will either make others more concerned with guns or make them more comfortable.

I agree with the OP. We have to be crystal clear in our discussions to win this ongoing battle. We can't allow ourselves to fall into their trap and lower our standards to theirs.

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Old 10-26-2013, 03:56 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by wittmeba
Axxe55, I agree with most of what you are saying, but guns do make it easier to commit serious crimes. They cover distance - you don't need to confront the BG at close range like with a baseball bat or golf club. Guns can make the little guy a tough guy and I think this is what we see in a lot of cases. The little guy can't engage in a physical confrontation because he will lose. I enjoy your posts! === And all the head line/story lines we read. The Zimmerman case. Although I still have questions that will never be answered, I think he did a good job in keeping his cool. He and his attorneys stayed focused on the issues. The recent shooting by the officers of the 13 year old Andy Lopez with the "Toy" gun. I absolutely despise the title of this story. We can thank our media for that one. A BB gun, pellet gun are not toys. People use them for hunting smaller game. And who would know what it was from 30 feet away? Someone mentioned the gun he had didn't have a full barrel. Gee, with all the thousands of makes and models who would know if it is or isn't a toy vs. a custom deadly weapon? Hindsight is always 20/20. I feel for the officers on scene that felt threatened. Perhaps they could have shot to lame rather than kill - but I wasn't there so I cannot judge or criticize like some feel they can. What is it going to take for people to realize others take these things seriously. There is plenty of publicity. How you handle a gun of any kind will either make others more concerned with guns or make them more comfortable. I agree with the OP. We have to be crystal clear in our discussions to win this ongoing battle. We can't allow ourselves to fall into their trap and lower our standards to theirs.
Having guns in my home, I am eager to teach my kids gun safety. I started by teaching my 11 y/o son to treat his Nerf gun like it was a real gun; never leave it loaded, finger off the trigger etc. if a child learns this with real TOYS they will take that lesson along when it comes to fake guns. So if my son wants to handle a bb or Airsoft gun he will know the proper methods and rules learned already.

It all starts at home folks. If your kid is going to play with a BB gun or Airsoft gun he should have a good but of training and know the rules. Sadly there are a few ways that the shooting of Andy Lopez could have been prevented. Some of them start with his parents or guardians. But as said hindsight is 20/20. I feel for all the families involved.
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Old 10-26-2013, 04:13 PM   #24
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Axxe55,

I agree with most of what you are saying, but guns do make it easier to commit serious crimes.

They cover distance - you don't need to confront the BG at close range like with a baseball bat or golf club. Guns can make the little guy a tough guy and I think this is what we see in a lot of cases. The little guy can't engage in a physical confrontation because he will lose.

I enjoy your posts!

===

And all the head line/story lines we read. The Zimmerman case. Although I still have questions that will never be answered, I think he did a good job in keeping his cool. He and his attorneys stayed focused on the issues.

The recent shooting by the officers of the 13 year old Andy Lopez with the "Toy" gun. I absolutely despise the title of this story. We can thank our media for that one. A BB gun, pellet gun are not toys. People use them for hunting smaller game. And who would know what it was from 30 feet away? Someone mentioned the gun he had didn't have a full barrel. Gee, with all the thousands of makes and models who would know if it is or isn't a toy vs. a custom deadly weapon?

Hindsight is always 20/20. I feel for the officers on scene that felt threatened. Perhaps they could have shot to lame rather than kill - but I wasn't there so I cannot judge or criticize like some feel they can.

What is it going to take for people to realize others take these things seriously. There is plenty of publicity. How you handle a gun of any kind will either make others more concerned with guns or make them more comfortable.

I agree with the OP. We have to be crystal clear in our discussions to win this ongoing battle. We can't allow ourselves to fall into their trap and lower our standards to theirs.
i agree completely. guns do make it somewhat easier. but still the gun is not the cause or fault of the violent deed, only the means used to commit the deed. the evil is within the person, not an inanimate object. and as i have said many times before, that even if guns never existed or were to disappear, people would still kill other people, just using something other than a gun.
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Old 10-26-2013, 08:19 PM   #25
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I think we need to remind people that mass murder, genocide and slaughter pre-date firearms by millennia!

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Old 10-26-2013, 08:38 PM   #26
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I think we need to remind people that mass murder, genocide and slaughter pre-date firearms by millennia!
very true. with guns they just became more efficient at killing.
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Old 10-26-2013, 11:03 PM   #27
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i agree completely. guns do make it somewhat easier. but still the gun is not the cause or fault of the violent deed, only the means used to commit the deed. the evil is within the person, not an inanimate object. and as i have said many times before, that even if guns never existed or were to disappear, people would still kill other people, just using something other than a gun.
Exactly! How do the libs think people killed people before around 1400? Just like people lied to the masses before TV and the Internet.

If firearms were never invented we would have the same problems and probably more because the weak/elderly/women wouldn't have a chance against the stronger members of society.
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:34 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Axxe55
...but still the gun is not the cause or fault of the violent deed, only the means used to commit the deed. the evil is within the person, not an inanimate object. and as i have said many times before, that even if guns never existed or were to disappear, people would still kill other people, just using something other than a gun.
And I too agree
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:49 PM   #29
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Exactly! How do the libs think people killed people before around 1400? Just like people lied to the masses before TV and the Internet.

If firearms were never invented we would have the same problems and probably more because the weak/elderly/women wouldn't have a chance against the stronger members of society.
guns were never the problem, and they will never be the problem. the problem is people and their attitudes and those who use guns in a violent manner.

guns are merely a more efficient way for evil people to commit murder and to do violent deeds.

guns are also an equalizer for those who can't physically stand up and fight to defend themselves.

what stops a bad guy with a gun is a good with a gun.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:16 PM   #30
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Big Governments kill more people than guns in civilians hands do.

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