It's a Matter of Trust
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:07 PM   #1
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Default It's a Matter of Trust

As Congress moves on towards a compromise I have to wonder if a basic lack of trust is the problem.

in today's NY Daily News, Adam Winkler the author of "Gunfight: The Battle over the right to bear arms in America" writes - " Today LaPierre says background checks will lead to a National Registry which will be used to confiscate our weapons. However Federal Law explicitly bans the creation of a National Gun Registry.
You don't need a registry to have background checks. We've had them for the majority of purchases for 20 years with no registry.

( This is the important part )- The government in fact, is legally required to destroy the records of background checks."

OK, on the surface it looks reasonable. Then we read in today's Journal News an article written by Lee Higgins detailing the Newtown Gun Buys, where he writes - " The Journal News has obtained copies of ATF 4473's, the Firearm transaction forms Nancy Lanza filled out and signed showing that she bought the Bushmaster on March 29, 2010 and the Sig 9mm pistol on March 16, 2011"

So what do we believe, we're being told one thing, but are seeing something else. Should we trust that because they are they legally required to destroy these records that they actually ever do get destroyed? Who else can access these records?

Interesting reading, and it seems to me Credibility and Trust is really the problem.

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Old 04-11-2013, 12:18 PM   #2
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So what do we believe, we're being told one thing, but are seeing something else. Should we trust that because they are they legally required to destroy these records that they actually ever do get destroyed? Who else can access these records?
If you are over the age of 18 than you should have enough sense to know that the Gov't cannot be trusted with anything
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by dog2000tj

If you are over the age of 18 than you should have enough sense to know that the Gov't cannot be trusted with anything
Where the *^%*^+^ have you been?!
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:35 PM   #4
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Moved your thread over to legal and activism.

Now, here is MY question- WHERE DID THE NEWS HOUNDS GET THE 4473?

The 4473 is retained by the dealer. In the course of a criminal investigation (likely given the circumstances) the BATFE can have access to the records of the dealer.

WHO THE HELL AUTHORIZED THE RELEASE OF THE 4473 TO THE HOUNDS???

And what right do THEY have to gain access to a record of the dealer?

I will freely admit that under some circumstances, ATF should have access to thos records. Have never seen anything that said they had the right to release them to the public.

Anyone? Bueller?

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Old 04-11-2013, 02:22 PM   #5
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Moved your thread over to legal and activism.

Now, here is MY question- WHERE DID THE NEWS HOUNDS GET THE 4473?

The 4473 is retained by the dealer. In the course of a criminal investigation (likely given the circumstances) the BATFE can have access to the records of the dealer.

WHO THE HELL AUTHORIZED THE RELEASE OF THE 4473 TO THE HOUNDS???

And what right do THEY have to gain access to a record of the dealer?

I will freely admit that under some circumstances, ATF should have access to thos records. Have never seen anything that said they had the right to release them to the public.

Anyone? Bueller?
Law enforcement can get 4473s from a dealer with a court order. BATFE can examine them on demand. I don't think there is any specific law prohibiting them from releasing these to the press.

The 4473 has been kept by dealers since 1969. When a dealer goes out of business, all of his 4473 forms are surrendered to the BATFE, and kept in a warehouse. That has been the law since passage of GCA68
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Old 04-11-2013, 04:20 PM   #6
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If you are over the age of 18 than you should have enough sense to know that the Gov't cannot be trusted with anything
I'm under 18 and understand that they can be trusted with very little.
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:26 PM   #7
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Does the government always obey the law? Anyone remember Fast and Furious?

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:35 PM   #8
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I'm under 18 and understand that they can be trusted with very little.
You can always trust them to screw something up.
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:27 PM   #9
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I stopped at the part about them being supposed to destroy records of background checks and them not keeping a registry because they just want mandatory background checks for all sales because I'm confused about something. If there's no registry, and no way of keeping tabs on who's got what and there's no record on the background checks...how the hell are background checks going to solve anything? Who's to say I didn't conduct a background check on someone and then it was destroyed? In order to mandate background checks, there MUST be some form of registry or proof that one was conducted, otherwise there's nothing to enforce.

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Old 04-12-2013, 05:32 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by locutus View Post
Law enforcement can get 4473s from a dealer with a court order. BATFE can examine them on demand. I don't think there is any specific law prohibiting them from releasing these to the press.

The 4473 has been kept by dealers since 1969. When a dealer goes out of business, all of his 4473 forms are surrendered to the BATFE, and kept in a warehouse. That has been the law since passage of GCA68
True what he says, BUT they claim the 'paper' is to much to deal with so they have been computerizing the 4473's for several years which is strictly forbidden, BUT HEY THEY ARE THE GOVERNMENT, we can trust them not to abuse this info!!!

Point being: If the government don't trust me why should I trust the government??????
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