An Interesting Colorado View - and yet I disagree with most of it - Page 2
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:25 PM   #11
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You could also be given a death sentence for the same and have it commuted to transportation.

I believe violent criminals with no regard for the rights of others should be kept locked up,but there was and historically is no precedent whatsoever for denying people the excersize of their inalienable rights via "gun control" in this nation.
It is a phenomena of modern times and directly contradictory to the Second Amendment that clearly tells government that it shall not infringe on the right of the people to keep and bear arms.

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Old 07-27-2012, 12:21 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by dog2000tj View Post
Well done sir, well done indeed and for your efforts - a little redheaded cookie, enjoy
I approve of this offering and deem you shall be King of all New York State and it's bordering locals once I am elected.

JD
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:47 AM   #13
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here is my reply in point my text is bold underlined

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You can shut up about how things would have been different if someone had a gun

I’ve fired and used guns my whole life. I don’t claim to be an expert or even overly proficient. And though I have shot a few thousand rounds in my life, I don’t think that would matter for me or others in this situation. So here’s what you soon-to-be heroes with conceal weapons permits should know:

You’re not Jason Bourne, Jack Bauer, or Bruce Wayne. Situational awareness takes training that you don’t get as a civilian. You won’t recognize a threat until it’s too late.

so mr genius you assume that holmes had some super level firearms ability your telling me i dont have?? what makes you think that potential ccw person would stand no chance against your oh so admired super-soldier holmes??

Unless you’ve trained with the exact weapons system you’re carrying, you’ll miss. It takes hundreds of hours with a firearm to really be proficient. Do you know what you’d do if it jams? Can you reload before the last round leaves your chamber? How many rounds in your magazine? Have you even practiced drawing your weapon if it’s concealed?

so how much time DID holmes spend practicing?? how often did he practice failure drills?? was holmes able to reload at all?? did he have a accurate round count?? i can tell you from personal experience there is plenty of time to draw this isnt the old west holliwood set with tumbleweeds...

Proficiency deteriorates without practice. When was the last time you fired your gun? Police and military practice regularly for their jobs. You do it irregularly for fun.

police and military generally practice far far far less with their firearms than the average ccw person does and shoot statistics reflect that. i can probably gauruntee that the newest ccw person in colorado has more rounds downrange more training and far more competency with firearms than holmes did...

A thousand hours on the range aren’t the same as a hundred seconds in a real shootout. Can you recognize the threat, obtain a site picture, and neutralize the target with a gun pointed at you? Police and military don’t just learn how to do this once, they actually train in these situations.

the boom and shrieking beehive hum is a sound even the newest person to being shot at recognizes instinctively. im pretty sure holmes had never heard or experienced being shot at. and no im sorry to say the military and police do not train with someone pointing a gun at them and firing live rounds. millions of people world wide have gone into life or death combat with no real combat training and have conducted themselves well.

There’s a solid chance you won’t even pull the trigger. There is huge psychological trauma associated with taking a life. Estimates are that between 1/3rd and 1/4th of guns on the battlefield in WWII were never shot. There are even police officers and soldiers who have been killed because they didn’t have what it took to kill.
Even if you train with your gun, you do it until you get it right. Police and military do it until they don’t get it wrong. You’re just not ready like they are to use your gun.

if a person has no gun they will never findout and just end up as a statistic. if a person has a gun they have that chance to survive and save their own life. why dont you just turn your guns in since you see no use for them. and by the way most rifles werent fired in ww2 and ww1 because they were never issued to actual combat troops. less than 10% of combat troops in any war see combat. this means that only about 1 in 10 actual issued rifles are used...
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/07/26/why-own-assault-rifle/#ixzz21m56WN4o
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Old 07-27-2012, 12:55 AM   #14
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Very nice response Jon - So far no comments of argument from the blogger to either post.

I wonder why. :roll eyes:

JD

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Old 07-27-2012, 02:33 AM   #15
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I approve of this offering and deem you shall be King of all New York State and it's bordering locals once I am elected.

JD
your generosity is only outshined by your ..... gleaming dome I am honored
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Old 07-27-2012, 04:48 AM   #16
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your generosity is only outshined by your ..... gleaming dome I am honored
Ahhh, NOW I get the 'combover..spritz' tagline...well done sir...carry on...
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Old 07-27-2012, 05:39 AM   #17
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He actually is right about only 1/4 of troops in combat in WW2 actually fired at the enemy. But today it's well over 90% today because of training. But also realize you rarely see the enemy in combat. Now if someone was in front of you killing other people, and pointed his gun on you? I believe for most people survival instinct would take over and they would take the shot.

I do agree with the idea that if someone had been carrying doesn't automatically mean they could have stopped him. They could have, but we will never know.

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Old 07-27-2012, 03:50 PM   #18
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I do agree with the idea that if someone had been carrying doesn't automatically mean they could have stopped him. They could have, but we will never know.
Interesting. So would your position be that this college kid was so well prepared & trained that someone shooting back at him would not deter him and his efforts?

I've personally never been shot at directly with intent to kill. I have been downrange many times as a kid and adult manning targets at rifle ranges and I can say I was "prepared" for the sound of fire. It was another thing entirely when someone missed the usual spots and skipped a round off the berm or one hit the actual metal skeleton frame that raised and lowered the targets.

My thought is what happened, looking back, has a definitive outcome. His AR jammed, his shotgun was either out of ammo or he didn't want to/need to reload it and he had a pistol. He left on his own accord.

But he was never confronted with a "force on force" situation that caused him to question his plans or his own safety.

A lot has been made of the protective gear he was wearing, but all that tells me is that he was in fear of his own safety. Putting rounds near him, let alone dumping bullet energy into that vest or groin or neck protector, would have got his attention in a NY minute.

What would have happened next is the only thing up for debate. But I am willing to bet dollars to donuts that his first choice would not have been to continue walking up an aisle shooting at innocent people.

Just sayin'.....

JD
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Old 07-28-2012, 06:44 AM   #19
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Interesting. So would your position be that this college kid was so well prepared & trained that someone shooting back at him would not deter him and his efforts?
What I mean is that it was dark, chaotic, crowded theater with people scrambling to get away. It would have been difficult to identify the shooter, let alone line up a shot without risking hitting an innocent person. Had someone who was 10-20 ft away from him been carrying, and managed to draw their weapon and line up a shot before he shot them, they probably could have stopped him.

I'm not saying he was trained for force on force shooting or that his body armor would have saved him (even if body stops a bullet you still have the bullet energy to contend with. I've known guys who've been shot in the SAPI plates and had their ribs broken).

But this is all conjecture. No one had a gun, and no one was able to stop him.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:42 AM   #20
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Sound like "S41T and did, fit and got lost", coulda, shoulda wouolda chatter from the Blogmeister.

Fact, anyone with a gun coulda returned fire and taken him out even with full body armor on, at 10 - 20 feet, a face shots pretty easy.

Fact, its easy to Identify the shooter, he's the one with the flash coming out the end of his barrel!

Fact, even if collateral injury had happened as a result of returned fire, it would be hard to imagine 70 injured and 12 dead if someone tried to stop him!

Fact, those that carry do have a significantly higher survival rate than those that dont in a shootout.

I could go on all day with these little tidbits but why bother, most of the folks here know it, the rest walk around with blinders on!

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