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Old 09-07-2010, 06:59 PM   #21
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Common sense would be a necessity. Obviously, you don't carry your gun if you are going to be imbibing alcohol.

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Old 09-07-2010, 07:07 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by pandamonium View Post
Tango. there ARE rules to follow, commiting a crime with a firearm, murder with a firearm, violent crimes, etc...

Those who commit violent crimes, go away foreverthose who murder or try to murder with a firearm, get the death penalty. Those who get life sentences can have the choice of a lethal injection. Law abiding citizens should not be punished for crimes they have not committed. All gun control laws do just that!
There are plenty of people not in prison that kill every single day. One group is call DRUG dealers.



What I am saying is this. There has to be some kind of uniform code for just about everything.

Take CCW I think all people in the USA should be allowed to CCW no matter what state they live in. My though is you have 1 course it is good for all 50 states you take it in the state you live in and it is good for all 49 other states. Many on here want no CCW laws at all. Who ever wants to carry can carry. Sorry I am not at all for that. RULES you have to have them. You are taking a DEADLY WEAPON out in public you should be at least trained a little on how to use it and in what situation you can and can't use it.

I will post more later I have to go call buses now.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:27 PM   #23
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There has to be some kind of rules to follow.

If there are no rules then how would you punish wrong doers?
That first statement just brings everyone down to their lowest common denominator.

In the second place, violating the rights of others (robbing, raping, killing, etc.) is punishable in and of itself, regardless of the involvment of a firearm (OK, unless you are a politician). Why not simply use increased penalties for crimes committed using a firearm; why make simply having a tool a crime without the misuse of that tool?

Following gun control's "logic", i should be serving a sentence for rape for having a penis, at least for indecent exposure (brandishing). I can hear the judge now "10 years for possession of an unregistered penis".
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:35 PM   #24
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Take CCW I think all people in the USA should be allowed to CCW no matter what state they live in. My though is you have 1 course it is good for all 50 states you take it in the state you live in and it is good for all 49 other states. Many on here want no CCW laws at all. Who ever wants to carry can carry. Sorry I am not at all for that. RULES you have to have them. You are taking a DEADLY WEAPON out in public you should be at least trained a little on how to use it and in what situation you can and can't use it.
I wonder how you'd feel about rules involved in expressing your opinion. Or in joining a religion.

You can make explosives and other nasty crap with stuff available at the hardware and grocery store. Should we have a class for that?

People thought there would be mass-murder in Florida when they relaxed their carry laws. Rather than skyrocket, crime fell.

Respectfully, I completely disagree with you. Rights are not conditional. They are not approved by a bureaucrat. They exist. What troubles me most is not this specific issue, but that you don't seem to get that concept.
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:15 PM   #25
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For devils argument sake bkt, how do you feel about the restrictions that have been put in place on the 1st amendment? A threat of violence to an individual can result in you being prosecuted, though technically we are free to say what we want without fear of reprisal. You also cannot simply picket where ever you want, say if it involves possible obstructions on the movement on non participants, on public ground you have to get permission from the city. Part of being in a society is the balancing act between freedoms and responsibilities, and while I do not buy any of the gun controls facetious arguments, I agree with cpttango03 on the need for rules.

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Old 09-07-2010, 09:36 PM   #26
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The generally accepted standard is "your rights end when they begin to infringe upon the next person". The 1st Amendment "Free Speech" doctrine allows you to say what you want until you threaten another with your words, incite a breech of the peace, (to some degree) offend the other person or slander another person.

It is difficult to imagine how my carrying a concealed weapon affects anyone else. If it is concealed, it does not affect them at all. If I draw the weapon and shoot them, I have now affected that person. My actions should be judged on their own merits or the lack thereof.

I agree the Constitution and Bill of Rights do not give me any rights. They restrict the government from infringing on my rights.

Are some restrictions proper? That is a difficult question because once you allow one weapon or class of person to be subject to restrictions, you open the door for others.
Should any weapons be restricted? High capacity handguns? Semi-automatic "military style" rifles? Machine guns? Short barrelled shotguns? Sound supressors? Rocket launchers? Howitzers? Thermonuclear devices? Most people will agree there is a limit. Where the limit is is the overriding question.
Should convicted Felons be restricted from ownership? Maybe only violent offenders. How about the certifiably insane? Mentally defective? Who gets to set the standard. What if they set the standard as a high school diploma? If you cannot graduate from high school, you are "mentally defective". Got a GED, you're out of luck. Drug abusers? What if they decided that any use is abuse. 90% of the people under the age of 50 are now prohibited from owning a firearm.

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Old 09-08-2010, 12:30 AM   #27
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Weather anyone wants to believe it or not. A gun has one purpose it is to destroy what ever it is aimed at. Cars are not planes are not people are not. I gun is designed to accelerate a projectile to a speed in which when it comes into contact with a foreign body it causes extreme damage no matter if that foreign body is a dirt mound or a person or a stinking deer.

If there are no rules then there is no way to punish the wrong use of something.

I understand that we all have the right to protect ourself and our loved one what ever the cost. I also feel that there are plenty of people out there that don't need to carry in public no matter what there are people out there that are just not smart enough to do it. To allow them to do it would be doing everyone a disservice.

I think each state enforcing a carry law is stupid. I believe we should have one set of laws for carry in the entire USA. I should be able to CCW in jersey if I have a California permit.

Quote:
I wonder how you'd feel about rules involved in expressing your opinion. Or in joining a religion.
Expressing my opinion isn't meant to destroy anything is it? NO neither is joining a religion. So your point is invalid really in that statement.

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You can make explosives and other nasty crap with stuff available at the hardware and grocery store. Should we have a class for that?
Again the ingredients by them selves are not meant to do harm to anything or one. So there for your point again is invalid.

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What troubles me most is not this specific issue, but that you don't seem to get that concept.
How do I not understand that? Because I don't agree with you. Oh well, cry me a river.

I understand it perfectly well.
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Old 09-08-2010, 12:38 AM   #28
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Expressing my opinion isn't meant to destroy anything is it? NO neither is joining a religion. So your point is invalid really in that statement.
Not really. All of those are covered under the constitution. The words "shall not infringe" are important here.
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:05 AM   #29
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Not really. All of those are covered under the constitution. The words "shall not infringe" are important here.
What did the founding fathers mean when they wrote "shall not infringe". Did they mean we should be unable to restrict criminals to carry firearms? (I doubt it) Did they mean that law abiding citizens should be able to carry firearms anywhere they choose(Key word "Anywhere")? (I also doubt that but I'm sure this will be more contested than criminals carrying) Did they mean that the individual should be able to own and carry a weapon of their choice? (I don't know) Did they mean that statement to mean that the states should have the final say over what firearms/weapons are or are not allowed to be carried by their citizens? I kinda lean this way but by no means express my opinion as an expert. It's just that from what I know and have read this is what the founders wanted, States rights.

I feel that incorporation has been a blessing and a curse. A blessing in that rights like free speech are not able to be restricted by states and a curse in that rights like bearing arms have been restricted because of federal laws that apply to all states due to incorporation. Give the states final say over gun laws and New York, Cali, Maryland and Illinois may ban pistols, but when Virginia, PA, Nevada, and Ohio allow ownership of automatic weapons you might see a population shift great enough to change the minds of those who wish to restrict our rights.
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Last edited by Yunus; 09-08-2010 at 02:03 AM. Reason: Removed the word reasonable, since when am I reasonable?
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Old 09-08-2010, 04:29 AM   #30
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For devils argument sake bkt, how do you feel about the restrictions that have been put in place on the 1st amendment? A threat of violence to an individual can result in you being prosecuted, though technically we are free to say what we want without fear of reprisal. You also cannot simply picket where ever you want, say if it involves possible obstructions on the movement on non participants, on public ground you have to get permission from the city. Part of being in a society is the balancing act between freedoms and responsibilities, and while I do not buy any of the gun controls facetious arguments, I agree with cpttango03 on the need for rules.
In your examples, it violates the rights of others. If you decide to picket, why should I be inconvenienced? You didn't consult me or seek out my opinion before you picketed so I should not have to suffer because of it. But carrying a personally owned firearm under my personally owned clothing or in a personally owned vehicle isn't infringing upon the rights of anyone else. Most people won't even know the firearm is there!!!

My owning or carrying a firearm isn't infringing upon anyone elses rights. Yeah it might make some uncomfortable, but that's a personal problem. It's not my job to make everyone else feel comfortable, especially at my own expense. I believe you should be able to carry your firearm however you want, as long as it is in a safe manner so no one else will be injured or killed.
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