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Ignore Gun Free Zones...Case in point, CO Shooting


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Old 07-22-2012, 03:59 PM   #41
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Has anyone considered an active media campaign to try to turn this to our advantage? Like Axxe55, I vote against GFZs with my dollar, or lack thereof. But every time I walk away, I leave one of these cards with the manager/owner. However, I wonder how many owners would respond to a poster with a headline that reads, "The Aurora, CO theater was a Gun Free Zone...Just like your business" followed by a set of facts like on the card about how well trained and background-checked CCW holders are and where to find shooting statistics that aren't sensationalized.

We tend to do nothing about situations like this because we are afraid we will be viewed as a "gun nut" or worse. However, if we continue to do nothing except wring our hands, our "rights" will soon be gone because we didn't fight for them.

A local restaurant hosts a "Bike Night" every week in my area, and the restaurant is a GFZ. I have carded them before, but I wonder what a bunch of motorcycle riders and vendors would feel about being sitting ducks, just like the poor victims in Aurora, CO...
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Old 07-22-2012, 04:25 PM   #42
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I respect and observe the rights of others right up to the point where there wishes put me in harms way.
I'm sure you realize that this is the exact argument that can be made by many on the other side whenever our beloved NRA takes its "no concessions, no discussions" stand in response to a national tragedy.

In my CPL class of 12 people, three people (two of them being my wife and me) could hit dead-center mass consistently on the targets. The other nine people shot everything but the target. The NRA instructor said "I don't care if you hit a cluster in the wall three feet above the paper, if it's a good cluster, I'm happy." And all nine of those people got their CPLs.

So let's say all nine of them decide they're just not gonna respect and observe the no-guns sign at, say, the local grocery store, and then some SHTF and they draw. They'll be shooting everyone but the BG.

In other words, their wishes to carry into a no-carry will put me and everyone else in harm's way.

I understand why plenty of people would think that being the only legally-armed person in a GFZ puts them at an advantage for being safe. But if 2/3 of them can't hit the broadside of the building they're in, they're just as big a menace as the masked shooter who might decide today's the day to empty the cash registers.
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:22 PM   #43
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I'm sure you realize that this is the exact argument that can be made by many on the other side whenever our beloved NRA takes its "no concessions, no discussions" stand in response to a national tragedy.

In my CPL class of 12 people, three people (two of them being my wife and me) could hit dead-center mass consistently on the targets. The other nine people shot everything but the target. The NRA instructor said "I don't care if you hit a cluster in the wall three feet above the paper, if it's a good cluster, I'm happy." And all nine of those people got their CPLs.

So let's say all nine of them decide they're just not gonna respect and observe the no-guns sign at, say, the local grocery store, and then some SHTF and they draw. They'll be shooting everyone but the BG.

In other words, their wishes to carry into a no-carry will put me and everyone else in harm's way.

I understand why plenty of people would think that being the only legally-armed person in a GFZ puts them at an advantage for being safe. But if 2/3 of them can't hit the broadside of the building they're in, they're just as big a menace as the masked shooter who might decide today's the day to empty the cash registers.
...and ^^THIS^^ is the mental defect that makes some people liberals...

Touting your skill level compared to other as a reason to observe unarmed victim zones? Really?

If you were in that theater with loved ones you would have grateful for ANYONE returning fire at the shooter.

Oh no...some "other" CCW holder might not aim as well as I do and add to the mayhem? Seriously Dude?

Maybe your right and we just hand them all over to Boxer, BO, and Mayer Boobberg... After all...some of us might miss.

Really weak LIB.

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Old 07-22-2012, 05:30 PM   #44
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Seriously, is there no way to really talk about this, on a forum that's all about exercising rights?
By definition, PUBLIC property is not the same as Private Property...and different rules apply.
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:34 PM   #45
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Has anyone considered an active media campaign to try to turn this to our advantage? Like Axxe55, I vote against GFZs with my dollar, or lack thereof. But every time I walk away, I leave one of these cards with the manager/owner. However, I wonder how many owners would respond to a poster with a headline that reads, "The Aurora, CO theater was a Gun Free Zone...Just like your business" followed by a set of facts like on the card about how well trained and background-checked CCW holders are and where to find shooting statistics that aren't sensationalized.

We tend to do nothing about situations like this because we are afraid we will be viewed as a "gun nut" or worse. However, if we continue to do nothing except wring our hands, our "rights" will soon be gone because we didn't fight for them.

A local restaurant hosts a "Bike Night" every week in my area, and the restaurant is a GFZ. I have carded them before, but I wonder what a bunch of motorcycle riders and vendors would feel about being sitting ducks, just like the poor victims in Aurora, CO...
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Old 07-22-2012, 05:49 PM   #46
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Has anyone considered an active media campaign to try to turn this to our advantage? Like Axxe55, I vote against GFZs with my dollar, or lack thereof. But every time I walk away, I leave one of these cards with the manager/owner. However, I wonder how many owners would respond to a poster with a headline that reads, "The Aurora, CO theater was a Gun Free Zone...Just like your business" followed by a set of facts like on the card about how well trained and background-checked CCW holders are and where to find shooting statistics that aren't sensationalized.

We tend to do nothing about situations like this because we are afraid we will be viewed as a "gun nut" or worse. However, if we continue to do nothing except wring our hands, our "rights" will soon be gone because we didn't fight for them.

A local restaurant hosts a "Bike Night" every week in my area, and the restaurant is a GFZ. I have carded them before, but I wonder what a bunch of motorcycle riders and vendors would feel about being sitting ducks, just like the poor victims in Aurora, CO...
Love it...and sorry for missing it earlier...I've been busy trying to lead a horse named LIB to water. Doubtful I'll be able to get him to drink.

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Old 07-22-2012, 06:08 PM   #47
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...and ^^THIS^^ is the mental defect that makes some people liberals... Touting your skill level compared to other as a reason to observe unarmed victim zones? Really?
No, not really. Showing that nine people of 12 would "spray and pray" but that you and our NRA think this is better than nothing. And that some NRA instructors can be mighty goddamned irresponsible by counting clusters off the map as something to admire, but you apparently see no problem there.

Until we realize why millions of fellow Americans see this as irrational and, frankly, scary as hell, all of us who own and love guns will be seen as kooks.

When any attempt at a serious, focused exchange of ideas just bypasses the focus and goes into insults and eye-rolling instead, there's no "discussion forum" taking place at all. That's a shame, because FT can really be an excellent resource otherwise.



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Old 07-22-2012, 06:09 PM   #48
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:16 PM   #49
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Old 07-22-2012, 06:28 PM   #50
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No, not really. Showing that nine people of 12 would "spray and pray" but that you and our NRA think this is better than nothing. And that some NRA instructors can be mighty goddamned irresponsible by counting clusters off the map as something to admire, but you apparently see no problem there.

Until we realize why millions of fellow Americans see this as irrational and, frankly, scary as hell, all of us who own and love guns will be seen as kooks.

When any attempt at a serious, focused exchange of ideas just bypasses the focus and goes into insults and eye-rolling instead, there's no "discussion forum" taking place at all. That's a shame, because FT can really be an excellent resource otherwise.



LIB

You stated that your instructor WAS concerned with decent groups but was not concerned with hitting the bullseye...right?

Newsflash, his job to is ensure a minimum level of proficiency, not to make all applicants marksman. A decent group is indicative of an appropriately controlled sting of fire. Where the "group" lands on paper is indicative of a needed sight or sight picture adjustment.

The NRA, for the most part, has stopped trying find common ground with gun grabbers because our enemies end game has been exposed. There is no negotiating with people who will never be satisfied.

People who think we can reach an agreement for common sense levels of gun control ALSO believe that we can negotiate common sense levels of violence with Hezbolla.

I'm sure it would make you giddy to be able to tell your liberal friends that your gun friends have accepted some new measure of control...for the sake of the children. Sorry to burst your bubble partner but if your LIB pals knew anything beyond soundbites from NPR they would know that there desire to save lives would be much more effective if they pushed for stricter controls on household cleaning chemicals, swimming pools, and cars.

These dangerous devices and chemicals kill far more Americans every day than guns.

Ok, pail of water placed...

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