Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism > If they come for your guns, do you have a responsibility to fight?

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Old 02-10-2013, 06:14 PM   #171
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Talk is cheap. All the evidence i can see is that gun control is already a reality in America they will chip away at it bit by bit.
That is what we are fighting against.

A further erosion against our rights.

And you, are the enemy.

eldar
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:16 PM   #172
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I agree with manta's last two posts.
Our guns rights are eroding. Some of us may bluster but you can realistically expect additional erosion of our rights. They already had the AWB once for 10 years. Look at several states gun rights(they almost have none). I moved here to AZ to be more free. When I lived in MN I was a champion for gun rights. I spent time at the state capitol and even appeared on TV couple times. But most people with guns pay no attention to what is happening and if they notice they do nothing anyway. Just because someone owns guns does NOT make them a huge champion of gun rights(or any rights). The fact is most in the USA are quick to give up their rights. We see that all the time. The people in the USA are not special. Our freedoms ARE special. That is the only thing that separates us from other countries. Our freedom makes all of us special. Very few realize this simple fact. Every single citizen should fight for all our rights whether those rights pertain to them or not. But no. They would rather just play with their smart phones and watch American Idol on the boob tube.

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Old 02-10-2013, 06:19 PM   #173
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Just because a gun show is packed with 1000 people in a city of 200,000 means very little.
Actually it means they have accepted reduced gun rights are coming so are trying to buy now.

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Old 02-10-2013, 06:25 PM   #174
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I can only go by what i see. Different states have different levels of gun control and not much was done to stop it. The problem as i see it is this in a pro gun forum and most are preaching to the converted. But don't make the mistake that the rest of the American population have the same views. Most Americans probably don't care one way or another and a lot would be happy with further gun controls. If some of them read some of the views on this forum about revolts and patriots it would turn them from not really caring one way or another to anti gun.
You are incorrect when you state that most Americans don't care one way or another.

Many of the non-participating Americans have joined the protest against further erosion of our rights by the 'progressives' as demonstrated by the many new owners of so-called assualt rifles. Many of those buying are NEW gun owners, folk that were once sitting on the fence and have now chosen to take a stand.

I know this to be true because I have witnessed friends and family who once sat on the fence buying those weapons.

One of my neighbors came to me and asked for information on what to purchase. A neighbor who had said less than one hundred words to me before in the six years I've known him.

The tide is turning for truth in this country. Truth for the American way.

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Old 02-10-2013, 06:36 PM   #175
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Manta, you are fighting a losing battle here! you are basing a mentality that many in your country have on Americans. well i am afraid you would be incorrect in that assessment. the American people are waking up and saying they are tired of being controled for their own good. yes we still have those who would trade freedom for security and those who would tow the the line to keep being able for the government to take care of them. but more and more are waking up and getting tired of the government telling them what's good for them and are starting to take a stand.

several states are even taking this stand in support of it's residents and saying enough is enough. majority of the people in this country want freedom and want to live their lives according to their beliefs. IMO, whatever someone wants to do as long it doesn't infringe my rights is fine. it's what our founding fathers based our Constitution upon, individual freedom. it's what makes our country the best.

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Old 02-10-2013, 07:46 PM   #176
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Does anyone remember the Battle of Athens?

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Old 02-10-2013, 07:48 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by manta

There are already background checks and permits for concealed carry. If so many Americans are so against checks why they not protest and stop the checks that already excist. ?
Just out of curiosity, what exactly is the point you are trying to make? You've made some valid points, I just don't see where they are going.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:52 PM   #178
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That member was from either Illinois, NY, or one of the other sates with gun owner registration. As we saw in the recent media release of gun permit holders addresses, most of these data bases are inaccurate and obsolete boondoggles.

Yes, we've seen it in a few state and there has not been violent revolt because within the US, there a 50 different states, will 50 different levels of gun liberties.

Anyone unwilling to live under this despotism has the option of moving to a gun friendly state... And many did. Or they registered to maintain a minimum level of armament and shipped their banned items out of state for friends or Familly to hold legally.

You are confusing our freedom of movement with compliance... Which is foolish.

The reason our system has had the success it has over the years is because all power not expressly granted to the Federal Government is reserved to the States and the People. This results in 50 laboratories of democracy where ideas are tried. Ideas that work get adopted by other States, ideas that don't get repealed...

Before you quip next about the lack of revolt at the last Federal AWB "1994 to 2004" let me remind you of a few thing.
1. The Grandfather Clause meant that in reality it banned NOTHING. It was hollow legislation that only mean your AR with a flash suppressor and collapsable stock cost you about $500 more than a newer rifle without these features.
2. It preceded the 24 hr new cycle and came at a time when 2A information was limited to news rack gun magazines and opposition correspondence was still primarily by letter.

Our nation has become far more polarized along the lines of personal liberties resulting in a situation where "most" of the people supporting gun bans to "save lives" also support the killing of 600,000 unborn children every year. And "most" of the people supporting gun rights respect all life, particularly unborn innocent life.
That not to say that if we had to power to ban abortion, we would... Several recent Republican presidents have had both houses of Congress and never moved in this direction. They didn't do it because while most of us oppose abortion... Most of us are unwilling to force our values upon others.

Our liberal adversaries do not share our respect for the rights of the opposition... and Americas 80 Million gun owners have recognized this. We have also recognized that there are NO acceptable levels of gun ownership our adversaries would ever accept. Each new "common sence" if passed, would only be followed by yet another "common sense" proposal down the road.

Our opposition will not stop until we are completely dissarmed... So why would we capitulate now? Why would we peacefully surrender the most valuable tools we have to prevent this?

The short answer is that we WON'T.

To a degree we can thank lemming gun owners like the British and Australians for helping to galvanize our side. Your capitulation and weakness, your willingness to kneel in exchange for the false promise of safety has show us that our liberals are no different and will not stop until out guns too, fall to the chop saws and melting pots... And the only legal guns lefts are registered and kept exactly where the Government can find them.

"those who beat their guns into plows... Will plow for those who did not"

"what make Americans different" you ask?

We've had the bennifit of watching your folly, we know that given our pourous borders and drug trade... Our "no gun" future would resemble Mexico's "no gun" reality... And above all else, our nation was born behind the muzzle of a gun discharging toward our enemies... We've no problem with preserving it in the same manner if forced to do so.

You, my dear friend Manta, have already been whipped... You and your countrymen have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found lacking.

Now, go sit down, drink some tea, and lamment the permanent loss of you manhood.

Tack

Tack
I find myself agreeing with many thing's you've said tack but you begin to lose credibility when you resort to getting personal.

I think manta is challenging the keyboard warriors claims of what their going to do if there is a gun grab. Actions speak louder than words and only time will tell if people stand up like they say.

We've had our own revolution and revolts a few hundred years ago but times change. Your revolution was a very long time ago and I wonder whether anyone would have an appetite for such actions on just one issue no matter how strongly you feel about it.

It doesn't take much to rally support against a supposed 'foreign ' gov or army, it takes a lot more issues to fire up people to over throw their own elected government when you still have the option to vote them out in a few years.

I think is great that you try to protect your constitution with the passion you do and it is worth protecting I wish we had one -well we did to certain degrees in different forms but they where either re written or ignored or became irrelevant.

Don't forget as visionary as your forefathers were, constitutions can be amended or changed, made relevant for the era we are in just like the Bible has been re written many times over the years to suit the people in power at the time. yet people still live by a book which was written by men who have given their own interpretation of the words of God .

I just get the feeling of the inevitability of constitutional change in the future because the world around us has changed. If it happens it will be a sad day for all.

I personally whole heartedly support your right to protect what u have and agree new restrictions would be useless but some of you are becoming a bit unreasonable in your arguments to the extent that your happy for innocent people to die for a magazine change.

Freedom comes in many forms I am a free thinker therefore a do not believe in God , people can also be enslaved by their minds our country seperated church and state for that reason. Religion is about control.., can you honestly say your country is totally free?
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:08 PM   #179
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IFC

You are correct about the ability to amend the constitution... And if liberals want to abolish the 2nd Ammendment, they should try to do it through this, "the constitutional" process.

I am constantly hearing from folks like Manta who base their notions on US gun laws on what they read from the US MSM... which is laughably inaccurate.

I get particularly irritated with foreign commentators who display their ignorance by quoting a NY or Illinois law and assuming that law impacts me in Washington State...

Our friend Manta strikes me as a fellow who's intensely embarrassed by the shameful and cowardly manner in which he and his fellow subject kneeled before their government and justifies that weakness by trying to convince himself that Americans will do the same... When our time comes.

It's pathetically weak behavior and bellow my standards for acceptable debate.

Tack


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I find myself agreeing with many thing's you've said tack but you begin to lose credibility when you resort to getting personal.

I think manta is challenging the keyboard warriors claims of what their going to do if there is a gun grab. Actions speak louder than words and only time will tell if people stand up like they say.

We've had our own revolution and revolts a few hundred years ago but times change. Your revolution was a very long time ago and I wonder whether anyone would have an appetite for such actions on just one issue no matter how strongly you feel about it.

It doesn't take much to rally support against a supposed 'foreign ' gov or army, it takes a lot more issues to fire up people to over throw their own elected government when you still have the option to vote them out in a few years.

I think is great that you try to protect your constitution with the passion you do and it is worth protecting I wish we had one -well we did to certain degrees in different forms but they where either re written or ignored or became irrelevant.

Don't forget as visionary as your forefathers were, constitutions can be amended or changed, made relevant for the era we are in just like the Bible has been re written many times over the years to suit the people in power at the time. yet people still live by a book which was written by men who have given their own interpretation of the words of God .

I just get the feeling of the inevitability of constitutional change in the future because the world around us has changed. If it happens it will be a sad day for all.

I personally whole heartedly support your right to protect what u have and agree new restrictions would be useless but some of you are becoming a bit unreasonable in your arguments to the extent that your happy for innocent people to die for a magazine change.

Freedom comes in many forms I am a free thinker therefore a do not believe in God , people can also be enslaved by their minds our country seperated church and state for that reason. Religion is about control.., can you honestly say your country is totally free?
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Old 02-10-2013, 08:08 PM   #180
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Just out of curiosity, what exactly is the point you are trying to make? You've made some valid points, I just don't see where they are going.
First i am not a fan of registration of firearms and i don't think it will happen in America any more than it has already. My point is directed at the ones posting that there would be mass protests and civil disobedience etc. That in some states registration has already happened and tighter gun controls have already happened. Without the mass protests and civil disobedience predicted so why do they think things would be different now if tighter controls were introduced.

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I get particularly irritated with foreign commentators who display their ignorance
Quote:
by quoting a NY or Illinois law and assuming that law impacts me in Washington State
You don't see the fact that tighter gun controls have happened in some states that it could happen in others.


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by quoting a NY or Illinois law and assuming that law impacts me in Washington State
That statement implies that as long as it doesn't affect you in Washington state that's OK.
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