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Old 05-31-2012, 03:54 PM   #41
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This has no way to go but get worse, much worse. Too many people today have no financial dicipline. Most do nothing but sign the back of their paychecks every week and give them to someone else. You can't possibly get ahead in life if you continually do that. For many it's their choice to do it. Many of the young apprentices I work with have themselves so bogged down with monthly bills they'll never get ahead. They save nothing, but they have every do dad known to man. Cell phones, I-Pads, Tom Tom's, On-Star, and all of it comes with a monthly bill. Add it up and no wonder when I ask them why their not in the company 401-K they tell me, "they can't afford it". Get rid of all that junk they're paying on and most could save a bundle.

Most drive new cars, but they are leased, (rented), not owned. Most are renting a apartment or house because they can't afford to save for the down payment. They have no savings accounts, just direct deposit for their check every week, that they draw on with their debit cards until it's gone, which it usually is by the next payday.

This type of living is going to catch up with them as they get older. None of them will ever be able to afford to retire. I work with 50 year old guys who are starring 30 year mortgages in the face. Do they expect to work until they're 80? How can you possibly retire with a 4 digit mortgage payment every month? It has become entirely too easy to separate people from their money today. People constantly complain the government spends entirely too much money, which they do. But when you look at them along with the way they live, they make the government look like misers. This won't last. It never has in the past, and it certainly won't much longer.
Yeah, and if the organizations carrying all that debt ever

had the balls to look past their monthly profit statement,

we'd all be in trouble.

But you want to know a little black secret, Bill?

Ownership is overrated.

Here's a simple example. What bank wants to tell you

any house they're holding a 40-year mortgage for is worth

less than the value of that mortgage?

THEY have everything to lose. If you paid for it up front,

YOU are the only one with something to lose, when the value

of that house falls into the toilet.

So creditor's provide inherent value to ANY item upon which

they are owed...
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:20 PM   #42
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So creditor's provide inherent value to ANY item upon which they are owed...
The problem is that financial philosophy didn't work out to well when they were loaning $300,000.00 to buy houses worth $100,000.00 did it?
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:55 PM   #43
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Sorry, it's not a matter of how that worked out, it's

a matter of basic banking principle.

Say, Bill, that you lend a guy, "Mike"

300.00$ to buy some tools. Until he pays you back,

are you going to intimate to Mike, in any way, that

you feel those tools are worth less than 300$?

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Old 05-31-2012, 05:49 PM   #44
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Sorry, it's not a matter of how that worked out, it's

a matter of basic banking principle.

Say, Bill, that you lend a guy, "Mike"

300.00$ to buy some tools. Until he pays you back,

are you going to intimate to Mike, in any way, that

you feel those tools are worth less than 300$?
If I thought that, I never would have loaned him the money to begin with. It doesn't matter what I or anyone else "thinks" they're worth. Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay you for it. If you loan more than that, you've made a bad loan. It's just that simple. In the case of the housing debacle, the entire disaster was built on the bigger idiot theory.

In any real estate market, good or bad, you will always have a certain percentage of people that will try to borrow more than they can afford to pay back. These people are most always kept in check by the banks and lending institutions who simply won't lend them the money, because it is too risky. In 2004 - 2006 the banks became the bigger idiots in the equation by loaning money to most anyone with two arms and legs who could sign their name.

They were dumb enough to buy into the entire convoluted mess by thinking this was never going to end. What did they think, the price of an average suburban home would be $1.2 million in ten years? Both banks and borrowers were caught up in what they thought was a bonanza that would never end. What resulted was the same thing that caused the Stock Market crash in 1929. There was no real value in the market. Only paper with good intentions to pay it back with profits that never came.

By entertaining this lending frenzy they artificially inflated the market until the entire real estate market crashed, causing prices to tumble. Now, banks, mortgage companies, and other lending institutions have returned to more solid lending principals they never should have gotten away from in the first place. I keep hearing that "banks aren't lending anymore!" They've been lending all along. They just won't loan it to idiots who can't pay it back.

When a bank loans money on a property today, they want enough of a down payment, (usually 20%), from the borrower to provide enough of a financial cushion so they are protected in the case of a downward adjustment in the market. The bank doesn't care if you lose your money, they just want to be sure they don't lose theirs. It makes zero difference what they or you think the home is worth. That is determined by market conditions, not by "cozying" the borrower.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:46 PM   #45
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Very true. Look at the obvious. When Hussein was newly elected he had majority control of both Houses. If he was ever going to pass gun control, that was the time to do it, not now with the GOP controlling the House and fighting him tooth and nail on everything.

Shortly after he was elected there was a petition that was signed by over 100 DEMOCRATIC Congressmen that stated in advance they would not support ANY gun control, if that was his intent. It must have changed his mind if it in fact needed any changing, because thus far for the last 3 1/2 years we've gotten zip from him on gun control.

Actually, I've read that "Fast & Furious" was a secret attempt to make gun dealers look bad, and was to open the door for another assault weapons ban. The problem was it blew up in their face and has now backfired completely. It has taken decades, but even the liberal Democrats, as difficult as it is for them to embrace reality, have seen gun control as a losing proposition. If Hussein attempted it now it would all but guarantee a Romney victory in November.
You can read a lot of strange things. That one is absurd. I once read that Obama was a killer zombie from outer space. I was a bit skeptical. You should have been skeptical on this one too.

F&F was a poorly thought out trap that caught the folks who set it. Stupidity, but no a conspiracy to make gun sellers look bad.

If they wanted to hurt gun sellers all they would have to do is add on more BATFE agents and pick gun sellers books to pieces. Probably any dealer could be run out of business because a tee wasn't crossed or an I wasn't dotted.
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Old 06-01-2012, 03:44 PM   #46
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In 2004 - 2006 the banks became the bigger idiots in the equation by loaning money to most anyone with two arms and legs who could sign their name.
IMHO, the practices which they got caught out on began in the '80s,

and simply became more exaggerated till the bubble burst, post '06.

Sort of like a mouse stealing cheese from a spring trap, they keep

getting more and more brazen, until [S N A P !] , dead mouse...

Sub-primes were just a brazen continuation of well-oiled scheme used

prior by banks, but everybody really wants to ignore what all this was

really caused by. we dare not say it
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:31 PM   #47
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It's not as much as you think. The markup on firearms compared to other products is microscopic.
I'm not sure what you are responding to there Silverado. I said nothing about making a lot of money. I am very familiar with the profiits, or lack of, associated with the retailing of firearms. When I sold guns, back in the 70's, my profit margin on ammo, parts, and accessories was much greater than it was on firearms. However to respond further, if firearms can't be sold or owned then their accoutrements will not be sold either.
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:47 PM   #48
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I'm not sure what you are responding to there Silverado. I said nothing about making a lot of money. I am very familiar with the profiits, or lack of, associated with the retailing of firearms. When I sold guns, back in the 70's, my profit margin on ammo, parts, and accessories was much greater than it was on firearms. However to respond further, if firearms can't be sold or owned then their accoutrements will not be sold either.
My apologies it seems some people think that way which is why I made the comment.
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Old 06-02-2012, 07:50 AM   #49
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My apologies it seems some people think that way which is why I made the comment.
I do see the point you were trying to make silver. And honestly, yes Obama does make the prices go up on firearm sales. Think about silvers point!!!!!
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