[Vikingdad]

This is not good for CCW. What a freaking moron!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/27/us/more-concealed-guns-and-some-are-in-the-wrong-hands.html?scp=9&sq=north%20carolina&st=cse

[AIKIJUTSU]

From reading the article, I find that 1 percent of the permit holders committed a crime. What is the percentage for the general population? I'll bet it is more than 1 percent.

[trip286]

Oh yeah, it's messed up. It happened two years ago though, and it's also published by the NYTimes, who I wouldn't put it past to publish an outright lie. I'm not saying that's what they did, but they are one of the most anti gun media outlets there is, and they hold themselves to about the same moral standards as our government.

[alsaqr]

Yep, leave it to the ultra-liberal New York Times to demagogue against concealed carry.

[Georgiahunter]

They just used a rare event to attack guns and the second amendment. Did they count how many lives were saved because of a person with a ccw? No. I believe the idiot would have tried to kill the bicycler even if he didn't have a gun. Just another example of liberals using out of context facts to attack the pro-gunners.

[AIKIJUTSU]

Are those media turkeys totally stupid, are they dreamers who try to make their fantasies of a Heaven on Earth come true by telling everyone to "be nice" to each other, disarm themselves, and then everybody will just behave? Or are they puppets for a government out of control that is trying to turn the U.S. into a 3rd world dictatorship? If the situation in the story was really as it was told, the clown with the gun must have slipped through the cracks. But who knows, maybe he shot the "victim" because the "victim" threatened his life, and that part of the story was intentionally omitted from the story. The media never lets the truth get in the way when they have a point to make.

[c3shooter]

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Murder in NC is down 3.9%. There were 468 murders in NC- 8 committed by a CCW holder with a gun. That mean 460 by others, right? If my math is right, you are 58 times more likely to be attacked by someone WITHOUT a CCW. BTW, New York City- the "Gun Free Zone"- had 229 murders in the same period. How's that happen?

Is the permit system in NC flawed? Yes- the cases they quoted were people already prohibited by Federal law from possessing a firearm- never mind carrying concealed. And the state needs to fix that. But the rate of crimes by a CCW holder is FAR less than 1%.

[Vikingdad]

Originally Posted by trip286

Oh yeah, it's messed up. It happened two years ago though, and it's also published by the NYTimes, who I wouldn't put it past to publish an outright lie. I'm not saying that's what they did, but they are one of the most anti gun media outlets there is, and they hold themselves to about the same moral standards as our government.

It begs the question could they not find a more recent example of a CCW permit holder acting in an irresponsible manner?

[Vikingdad]

Originally Posted by c3shooter

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Murder in NC is down 3.9%. There were 468 murders in NC- 8 committed by a CCW holder with a gun. That mean 460 by others, right? If my math is right, you are 58 times more likely to be attacked by someone WITHOUT a CCW. BTW, New York City- the "Gun Free Zone"- had 229 murders in the same period. How's that happen?

Is the permit system in NC flawed? Yes- the cases they quoted were people already prohibited by Federal law from possessing a firearm- never mind carrying concealed. And the state needs to fix that. But the rate of crimes by a CCW holder is FAR less than 1%.

C3,
Could you please cite your source? Also, you state "Murder in NC is down 3.9%", as compared to what exactly? Pre shall-issue NC statistics? Also, what is the margin of error on those statistics? 3.9% could be within the margin of error. Regardless it is not that big of an improvement in my opinion.

Your inclusion of NYC murder statistics doesn't make sense to me. Gun-free Zone NYC has half the murders. How do the populations compare? How many of those murders were committed with a firearm? It stands to reason (the way I see it) that it would be much lower if there were more people with CCW's (or any for that matter). Either way I don't see there to be any comparison between NYC and NC statistics. Too many variables.

[Vincine]

Originally Posted by c3shooter

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

I'm always tempted to ask people if they're willing to put their money where their mouth is when they present data like that to influence opinion.

Wager:
I’ll give the NYTs $10 for everyone with a CCW who’s committed a crime;
but the NYTs has to give me $1 for everyone with a CCW who hasn’t committed a crime.
10:1 odds, think they’ll accept?

How about at 100:1?