Originally Posted by Flat Tire
A bad idea isn't "logic". Logic isn't about reverse psyschology. The title of this thread is "An idea im trying to polish".
Well, yeah, it is about logic. If you posit an argument for one set of circumstances and you flip the subjects, will the argument remain valid? If so, it may be a sound argument. If not, then it's a fallacious argument.
My older brother is a hard-core lefty. He embraces communism (conceptually, not the way it has been applied every single flippin
it has been tried). After the Aurora shooting, I started an email thread with him on gun control to do as PPC wants to do: to discuss the issues, present facts, look at history, come to a sound conclusion, and have a meeting of the minds where we come together in agreement.
He presented all of the fallacious arguments the left tends to present: crime is lower in countries that ban guns (it's not), guns are too easy to get (for criminals, yes, but it's actually downright onerous for law-abiding folks), there are too many guns (277 million estimated, yet 0.03% of those legally owned are used to commit crimes, so quantity doesn't matter), assault weapons must be banned (extremely few so-called assault weapons are used in crimes), and on and on. Gunfacts is a wonderful resource for poking holes in gun-control-related arguments, by the way.
He didn't take issue with anything I said and got an education he didn't expect.
The upshot? He still wants tighter gun control and "fewer guns in the hands of the public."
My brother has a Ph.D. in philosophy and on topics unrelated to political issues can wield logic like nobody I've ever met - the guy's a genius. But once facts contradict his leftist ideas, he shelves logic and resorts to emotion. Raw, unfounded, childish emotion.
The frustration I've felt over the last several days is profound; I want to get him to think objectively about this, but he flatly refuses. Ideology trumps reason.
You can make progress with fence-sitters - I've done it many times myself. But for folks who are firmly in the statist camp, you may not make much headway.