How Many More Heller's Will we Win ?


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Old 06-26-2008, 05:34 PM   #1
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Default How Many More Heller's Will we Win ?

Well just finished reading enough of the decision to see that JD hit it on the head as usual .

Raise a toast to a victory but don't go getting to excited over it all .

With Presidential elections just around the corner don't forget what a fragile victory it was with a 5-4 decision .

The only comfort one can find is the fact that even with a Democratic victory in November and even perhaps a November 4 years away is the fact that the most frail of the Supremes "Ginsberg" that might need replacing by an antigun President has already come down against us leaving the present majority intact , at least for the foreseeable future .

The chink in Heller is what defines a "Dangerous and unusual weapon" and "Those in common use for lawful purposes" ?

Quote:
(f) None of the Court’s precedents forecloses the Court’s interpretation.
Neither United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. 542, 553, nor
Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 264–265, refutes the individual rights
interpretation. United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not
limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather
limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by
the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes.
Pp. 47–54.
2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.
It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any
manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed
weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment
or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast
doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by
felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms
in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or
laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of
arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those
“in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition
of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons.
Pp. 54–56.
Do all semiautomatics get the protection of "in common use for a lawful purpose" , or just some ?

What makes a weapon "Unusual" ?

In the civilian world that can be defined as simple as a bayonet lug on a rifle or even a lanyard loop on a handgun .

Certainly a multicolored weapon with todays modern "Paint jobs" on them can be seen as unusual . Will all of the Yellow and Pink guns be banned on this basis ?

As far as "dangerous" goes it wouldn't be of much use for defense if it weren't dangerous now would it ?

I'm afraid all this decision has done is paved the way for hundreds of more lawsuits with each only slightly less fuzzy than the last .


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Old 06-26-2008, 08:03 PM   #2
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"Dangerous weapon"? Hmmm. What is a "harmless weapon"?



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Old 06-26-2008, 08:12 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by bkt View Post
"Dangerous weapon"? Hmmm. What is a "harmless weapon"?
A Nerf bat....Come to think of it, the whole "Nerf Self Defense Line" actually...

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Old 06-26-2008, 08:25 PM   #4
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Nerf guns are weapons? Dammit. I broke my workplace rules by bringing a weapon to work. Now I'm screwed.

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Old 06-26-2008, 08:35 PM   #5
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NERF N-STRIKE RECON CS-6

Build your own blaster with five interchangeable parts that you can take apart and reassemble any way you want. Snap the parts in any configuration onto the TACTICAL RAIL, and gain the upper hand in any situation that calls for awesome dart-tag action. Other features include a flip-up sight for aiming precision and a dual-mode light beam with red-dot accuracy that’s perfect for night missions! Use the shoulder stock to steady your shot and store an extra clip of ammo (sold separately). Get armed with the most exciting name in high-tech blasters: N-STRIKE power!

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Old 06-27-2008, 12:09 AM   #6
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You are exactly right, you can keep and bear arms, but the type you are allowed to keep could easily be restricted in the future.
It is entirely feasible for restrictions on all semi-automatics, which would then make them not in common use, and then allow their prohibition etc.
You could find an argument that the type of arms borne at the time of 2A were single shot weapons, and therefore that is the only type you have a constitutional right to keep and bear.
Don't laugh, more outlandish things have happened.

Nobody here in Aus thought they would ever dare to ban .22 auto rifles or pump shotguns until they actually did.
And guess what? after the fact, it was no use having a march with over 100,000 people down the main street of Melbourne. It might have made people feel better to express their anger, but those guns are still banned!
And they are unlikely to get unbanned in the foreseeable future too.

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Old 06-27-2008, 08:14 PM   #7
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The idea of unusual weapons was a black cloud I saw in Scalia's opinion too. It seems he believes that a ban on machine guns for private citizens is constitutional. I believe it is not. It is useful in war, therefore we are rightly entitled to them.

At least he dismisses the idea that only weapons around during the founding are all that are allowed. Any of those banners who says that's the case are patently lying. He makes it quite plain that the handgun is the weapon of choice for self defense in America, therefore no authority can completely ban them. His other black cloud was allowing that registration and licensing is permitted. Guess how many licenses are going to be approved in "may issue" areas? Probably as many get approved now. All the banner politicians have to do is issue to their cronies and then they can say, "see, we gave permits for people! We're following the Supreme Court." All the while, denying them to the citizens at large.

Agreed, we ain't out of the woods yet....

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Old 06-27-2008, 08:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillinger View Post
NERF N-STRIKE RECON CS-6

Build your own blaster with five interchangeable parts that you can take apart and reassemble any way you want. Snap the parts in any configuration onto the TACTICAL RAIL, and gain the upper hand in any situation that calls for awesome dart-tag action. Other features include a flip-up sight for aiming precision and a dual-mode light beam with red-dot accuracy that’s perfect for night missions! Use the shoulder stock to steady your shot and store an extra clip of ammo (sold separately). Get armed with the most exciting name in high-tech blasters: N-STRIKE power!

JD, I'm peeing myself, that's the funniest description and picture I've ever seen.


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