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How British laws killed off gun ownership


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Old 09-15-2013, 11:23 AM   #51
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Americans will now proudly state that the 2A is a protection from this tyranny of the majority but if that was true then no gun control proposals would even get to the senate for voting, you wouldn't need powerful lobby groups, and you wouldn't need to endlessly lobby your senators.
We could go to war every time that happened, but that would be a lot of blood shed wouldn't it? We've chosen to instead take the peaceful route and fight them in the courts and in Congress instead of the field. Believe me though, the day they start knocking on doors and trying to take our guns away will be the day the second American Civil War begins. We WON'T turn them in like so many in the UK did.

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So this is just an illusion you have, which is why the only thing maintaining firearms freedom in the US is your strong gun culture which appears to be waning like it is most places in the Western the world.
Where have you been? American gun culture is stronger today than ever before. Gun ownership is at an all time high. More and more people are fighting against gun control (as evidence by our defeating of the assault weapons ban, high capacity magazine ban, universal background check law, and our recent recalling of two antigun senators (state) in Colorado)

So where is the illusion?

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The more guns in fewer hands is not just a pattern seen in Britain and probably Europe but in America to.
Again, gun ownership is at an ALL TIME HIGH!

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You just have a lot further to go before suffering the same effects of this tyranny of the majority,
Two things here.

1) The US Constitution PROHIBITS any infringement on our right to keep and bear arms. The Constitution also protects the minorities' rights from the majority.

2) The majority is on our side.

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New York and California are just the start of the shift as far as I can see.
California and New York DON'T show us what the rest of the country will be like. In fact, they show us why we shouldn't be like them. Take a look at their crime rates and be prepared to be appalled.

Illinois is also a very antigun state. Guess what just recently happened there. They were FORCED to start giving out concealed carry permits. A court held they were in violation of their own state constitution.

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But I would LOVE to be proven wrong when it comes to this...
And you will be.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:24 AM   #52
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WebleyFosbery38,

It's still a lot easier and cheaper than keeping a car on the road legally. Most people manage that, the only reason more people don't bother with guns is because it's not in their interests. I don't see what is so confusing.
Cant disagree with you on that except to say that Driving a Motor Vehicle on Public Roads in the USA is a Privilege not a right. Its a very expensive privilege, My Wife and I pay nearly $3000 a year to drive our three vehicles, it crazy but completely legal Governmental extortion. My 9 firearms on the other hand cost me absolutely nothing every year except for the initial cost and taxes, ammo and cleaning supplies (Which are all Taxed). The weapon and the right to own it are not taxed after the fact in NY (yet)

Most people that dont "bother with guns" somehow have the mentality that someone will take that bother on for them. When immediate Assistance is a phone call and 15+ minutes away; thats a presumption that could very well cost the life of someone dear to you if not your own.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:24 AM   #53
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So in other words, your government treats regular civilians like second class citizens compared to officers and guards. They allow the police to have defensive arms, but severely restrict your right to own guns in general.

Sorry, but I could not live in a country like that with out at least fighting for my rights at every turn. I would not accept that no matter what.
It's more about being a high risk target, which average joe isn't seen to be (that's the official line, I don't nessasarily agree with it). Plus our regular police may not carry or even handle firearms. Only specialist units are deployed to situations or sent out to collect/handle firearms.

Also I don't think Americans can talk to much about the British being subjects of the state considering we don't have an NSA, DHS (the states domestic army), armed drone surveillance able to fire on Americans legally without trial etc (I could go on). If you think easy firearms regimes = citizen then you are seriously deluded. At least we admit where we are rather than take the blinkered approach by thinking 'because of got my guns everything's okay'.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:26 AM   #54
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So in other words, your government treats regular civilians like second class citizens compared to officers and guards. They allow the police to have defensive arms, but severely restrict your right to own guns in general.

Sorry, but I could not live in a country like that with out at least fighting for my rights at every turn. I would not accept that no matter what.
Do police officers not carry firearms in America. Civilians can carry firearms as well if they are under threat. Police and prison officers are under constant threat by terrorist organizations that's why they are armed the threat is not as high now as it is to be. A few examples

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The attack was jointly planned by members of the South Armagh Brigade and an IRA unit in Newry. In the early evening of 28 February 1985, nine shells were launched from a Mark 10 mortar bolted onto the back of a Ford lorry that had been hijacked in Crossmaglen. Eight shells overshot the RUC station in Corry Square, but one 50-lb shell landed directly on a Portakabin containing a temporary canteen. Nine police officers were killed, including a cousin of Unionist politician Jeffrey Donaldson, and 37 people were injured including 25 civilian police employees. The death toll was the highest inflicted on the RUC in its history
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David Black, who had worked in the Northern Ireland Prison Service for more than 30 years and was nearing retirement, was shot dead on Thursday on the M1 between Lurgan and Portadown in County Armagh.

In what has been described as an ambush, Black, from Cookstown, Co Tyrone, was killed after shots were fired into the car as he drove to work at the top-security Maghaberry jail near Lisburn
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A total of 300 RUC officers have been murdered during the Troubles.The IRA has killed 277, the INLA and IPLO 12 and loyalist terrorists eight. Three were murdered by unknown groups. In addition, four officers were killed by the security forces by mistake and over 9,000 injured during the course of their duties.

Terrorist groups have bombed, shot and beaten RUC officers to death, sometimes killing relatives and other civilians in the process. Levels of stress-related illness have been higher than in any other police force: almost 70 officers have committed suicide, many of them with RUC-issued weapons.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:27 AM   #55
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Cant disagree with you on that except to say that Driving a Motor Vehicle on Public Roads in the USA is a Privilege not a right. Its a very expensive privilege, My Wife and I pay nearly $3000 a year to drive our three vehicles, it crazy but completely legal Governmental extortion. My 9 firearms on the other hand cost me absolutely nothing every year except for the initial cost and taxes, ammo and cleaning supplies (Which are all Taxed). The weapon and the right to own it are not taxed after the fact in NY (yet)

Most people that dont "bother with guns" somehow have the mentality that someone will take that bother on for them. When immediate Assistance is a phone call and 15+ minutes away; thats a presumption that could very well cost the life of someone dear to you if not your own.
I'm not Piers Morgan, I know the US is different but I was just explaining that it's not because of "strict laws" that our ownership rate is low, it's because it's not as bigger interest for people here.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:29 AM   #56
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It's more about being a high risk target, which average joe isn't seen to be (that's the official line, I don't nessasarily agree with it). Plus our regular police may not carry or even handle firearms. Only specialist units are deployed to situations or sent out to collect/handle firearms.

Also I don't think Americans can talk to much about the British being subjects of the state considering we don't have an NSA, DHS (the states domestic army), armed drone surveillance able to fire on Americans legally without trial etc (I could go on). If you think easy firearms regimes = citizen then you are seriously deluded. At least we admit where we are rather than take the blinkered approach by thinking 'because of got my guns everything's okay'.

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
-Johann Wolfgang Von Goethe
We are fighting to get rid of the NSA's spying. What are you doing to fight for your right to keep and bear arms?

We're free because we HAVE a choice. Should the government overreach past the breaking point, then we could actually fight back and stand a chance. What could you do?
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:33 AM   #57
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Do police officers not carry firearms in America. Civilians can carry firearms as well if they are under threat. Police and prison officers are under constant threat by terrorist organizations that's why they are armed the threat is not as high now as it is to be. A few examples
If I want to carry a gun, I DON'T have to give anyone a reason for doing so. I can go get the permit (they HAVE TO issue it to me), and carry what I want. In some states, I don't even need a permit. I can just carry.

If I had the money and wanted too, I could also by a machinegun (long process, but doable). So yes, we in America (at least most of America) are equal to the police for the most part.

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Old 09-15-2013, 11:49 AM   #58
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We are fighting to get rid of the NSA's spying. What are you doing to fight for your right to keep and bear arms?

We're free because we HAVE a choice. Should the government overreach past the breaking point, then we could actually fight back and stand a chance. What could you do?
You won't get rid of It. Where's the evidence that your even trying?. BASC is the best we can do as a small group of people in the British Isles. They are currently resisting the commie pricks Alex Salmond and Kenny Mcaskill who are desperately pushing for more draconian gun laws in Scotland. Their party (the SNP), was democratically elected. Probably not with the help of a single informed gun owner. See our problem?.

As I've said before, your state is ten times more heavily armed than ours. You damn well need all the weapons you can get should the SHTF. Ours is pathetic, we don't have a domestic army, just probably less than 50 firearms for each region of the Country held by the police units who are quite frankly a danger to everything BUT what they are aiming at.

Look at the DHS as proof that your Government has just got into an arms race with it's citizens/subjects.

Oh, and look at the weapons the IRA stockpiled. Amongst all the machine guns, S.A.M units, grenades and handguns, the weapons used most widely and to most effect were IEDs. You can also ask the taliban how effective pop guns are against Hellfire missles and Gau8's.

Like I say your deluded. "Got ma guns so am ready for anythang". Or not...
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:09 PM   #59
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You won't get rid of It. Where's the evidence that your even trying?.
Snowden for one. He exposed it. That would be the first step in fighting it.

It also takes time to fight something like that.

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BASC is the best we can do as a small group of people in the British Isles. They are currently resisting the commie pricks Alex Salmond and Kenny Mcaskill who are desperately pushing for more draconian gun laws in Scotland. Their party (the SNP), was democratically elected. Probably not with the help of a single informed gun owner. See our problem?.
Yeah, too many in the UK have fallen for the subject BS.

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Look at the DHS as proof that your Government has just got into an arms race with it's citizens/subjects.
That is an arms race they can't possibly hope to win. We have roughly 200-300 times more small arms than the US military.

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Oh, and look at the weapons the IRA stockpiled. Amongst all the machine guns, S.A.M units, grenades and handguns, the weapons used most widely and to most effect were IEDs. You can also ask the taliban how effective pop guns are against Hellfire missles and Gau8's.
A few things here.

1) most military and police would side with civilians if it came to war.

2) A tank is not very helpful in guerrilla warfare, especially when your extremely outnumbered.

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Like I say your deluded. "Got ma guns so am ready for anythang". Or not...
Deluded? No. I see things for what they are. I'm not so sure about you though.

BTW, the little redneck accent you threw in there to be offensive wasn't called for. It just makes you look like a pompous ass.
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Old 09-15-2013, 12:51 PM   #60
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If I want to carry a gun, I DON'T have to give anyone a reason for doing so. I can go get the permit (they HAVE TO issue it to me), and carry what I want. In some states, I don't even need a permit. I can just carry
They have to issue it to you even if you have a criminal record or similar. ?

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Snowden for one. He exposed it. That would be the first step in fighting it.

It also takes time to fight something like that.
I would be surprised if you were surprised by anything that Snowden revealed. American civilians are under more control and surveillance by your government now ever before. PS That won't change when Obama leaves the white house no matter who gets in.

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If I want to carry a gun, I DON'T have to give anyone a reason for doing so. I can go get the permit (they HAVE TO issue it to me), and carry what I want. In some states, I don't even need a permit. I can just carry
Did you miss the bit where I said that no one was arguing that firearms controls were stricter in the UK and most of Europe than America.

Last edited by manta; 09-15-2013 at 12:57 PM.
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