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How British laws killed off gun ownership


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Old 09-14-2013, 11:18 PM   #41
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Manta, you have said many times how well armed the police are where you live and how civilians can own and carry a handgun. Isn't that "luxury" only afforded to protestants so they can defend against the catholics? Tell us the truth, can anyone regardless of religious beliefs obtain and carry a handgun in N Ireland?

Our point here is how disgusting it is for the UK to turn the victim into a criminal and turn the criminal into a victim. And no, MOST US states don't play that sorry game, only a very FEW have anti-self defense beliefs.

IMO, there is a fundamental difference in the way our people think. If your practices were widespread in the US, the people would NOT stand for it and would be willing to fight and die to change it to how it should be. Your people are not willing to fight and die for your freedoms like we are. I wonder what the breaking point, if any, would be for the people of the UK?

I mean no disrespect towards you or the UK, I just don't see how you and your people justify this kind of BS and I certaintly don't understand why you and your people allow it to happen. Please don't say the law, you know as well as I do it's plain wrong and could cost you or your loved ones their life, all because the "law" says violent criminals have the same rights and protections you are afforded.
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Old 09-14-2013, 11:43 PM   #42
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Manta, you have said many times how well armed the police are where you live and how civilians can own and carry a handgun. Isn't that "luxury" only afforded to protestants so they can defend against the catholics? Tell us the truth, can anyone regardless of religious beliefs obtain and carry a handgun in N Ireland?

Our point here is how disgusting it is for the UK to turn the victim into a criminal and turn the criminal into a victim. And no, MOST US states don't play that sorry game, only a very FEW have anti-self defense beliefs.

IMO, there is a fundamental difference in the way our people think. If your practices were widespread in the US, the people would NOT stand for it and would be willing to fight and die to change it to how it should be. Your people are not willing to fight and die for your freedoms like we are. I wonder what the breaking point, if any, would be for the people of the UK?

I mean no disrespect towards you or the UK, I just don't see how you and your people justify this kind of BS and I certaintly don't understand why you and your people allow it to happen. Please don't say the law, you know as well as I do it's plain wrong and could cost you or your loved ones their life, all because the "law" says violent criminals have the same rights and protections you are afforded.
very well said!
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Old 09-15-2013, 09:10 AM   #43
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I have an acquaintance in the UK that is the owner of http://www.armsresearch.co.uk/index.html . Hes the guy you contact to find out the skinny on your Wilkinson, Webley or WF weapon, he owns all the archives. He actually owns one of the nicest collection of Webley Fosbery's in the world. We have had a few chats about the restrictive and oppressive nature of his existence in the UK. He was a professional target shooter most of his life until the laws became so screwed up that now he's just collecting.

Its crazy to think you could own such a wonderful collection of firearms but your not allowed to use them.

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Our point here is how disgusting it is for the UK to turn the victim into a criminal and turn the criminal into a victim. And no, MOST US states don't play that sorry game, only a very FEW have anti-self defense beliefs.
The quote above from 1911 is perfect actually, couldnt have said it better myself!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o_bhp-_e_D8

Jager posted this Manta, listen to all 30 minutes of it and realize why your laws are never going to be effective at reducing crime, only making new victims! Nearly 20 minutes waiting for police response, listening to this POS pounding on her door trying to get in after he announced he was armed, knowing that any second she could become a crime stat! I thought she did pretty good, didnt reload and shoot him 6 or 8 more times cause I might have!

Did you hear the absolute terror in her voice?

Do you have any sense of how that kind of horrifying violation could cause someone to make sure the person who has crossed her threshold is dead even if he saw the gun and turned and ran (he didnt see the gun, just the flash, then gnite POS)? What would you be doing right then, reading the rules to see what your legal response should be?

You talk about threat response by non LEO's like its a science, for them its not, its just living! These are real people confronted and surprised by evil, scared out of their wits and doing what they perceive they must just to survive! You and your government sitting in judgement of a victims reactions to being violated by criminals, thugs and terrorists is ludicrous and scary. Your enabling criminals and disabling possible victims.


The old "crossing over the line" phrase comes to mind, Once the criminal crosses over that line, they should expect and receive free of charge, all the lead they can eat! Grab the dog by the tail and you get the whole dog, teeth and all!

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Old 09-15-2013, 10:34 AM   #44
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Two things that many American residents don't seem to understand here is that firstly, the Royals carry zero weight on firearms laws (please keep up, that changed long ago ). The Royals are little more than a cultural thing, or like celebrities to many of the British people. Secondly (and therefore) our firearms laws are just the results of our democratic system.

As in any democracy, the majority win over the minority and so we tend to loose out because public opinion in general does not favour anything weapon related here. That's why we aren't even allowed pepper sprays, expanding batons, tasers etc, it's not even just a gun thing even.

Americans will now proudly state that the 2A is a protection from this tyranny of the majority but if that was true then no gun control proposals would even get to the senate for voting, you wouldn't need powerful lobby groups, and you wouldn't need to endlessly lobby your senators. So this is just an illusion you have, which is why the only thing maintaining firearms freedom in the US is your strong gun culture which appears to be waning like it is most places in the Western the world. The more guns in fewer hands is not just a pattern seen in Britain and probably Europe but in America to. You just have a lot further to go before suffering the same effects of this tyranny of the majority, New York and California are just the start of the shift as far as I can see. But I would LOVE to be proven wrong when it comes to this...

Oh and a note for Piers Morgan, we could have a far higher gun ownership rate than the USA if people here wanted to buy guns, because if you have no criminal record, and can buy a gun cabinet and pay the license fee, then all you need to do is get a landowners permission or join a gun club and your entitlement to own firearms cannot be refused by the police.
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:45 AM   #45
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Ps I'm with Tony Martin and don't blame him for what he did considering what he endured from those scumbags night after night with ZERO help from the same people who walked in and took his only means of safety.

He claimed that he only saw silhouettes of the men when he fired believing that they were coming towards him, if true then it's hard to criticize, if I could tell they were retreating I don't think I would fire to maim or kill. Perhaps deliberately fire and miss to **** them up but then that would undoubtedly be illegal to... who knows what it would be like. The guy must have felt completely alone in it all .

He is known to have acquired more weapons illegitimately since his jail term and I don't blame him considering the death threats he was receiving. We all know the police would be about as much use as a chocolate fire guard should said scum go through with their threats and attempt to kill him.

But we have to be careful what we say .

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Old 09-15-2013, 10:55 AM   #46
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Manta, you have said many times how well armed the police are where you live and how civilians can own and carry a handgun. Isn't that "luxury" only afforded to protestants so they can defend against the catholics? Tell us the truth, can anyone regardless of religious beliefs obtain and carry a handgun in N Ireland?
Lets start by saying that the firearms laws are stricter in the UK than America no one is denying that. As said in another post shooting and firearms ownership is very much a minority pursuit most doint care about firearms one way or another. Anyone can have a firearm in N Ireland if they are over 18 and doint have a violent criminal history whether you are a protestant or catholic has nothing to do with it. To obtain a handgun you have to be in a gun club for other firearms you just need somewhere to shoot it. Police prison officers and others that are under threat have personal protection firearms protestant and catholic.

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I mean no disrespect towards you or the UK, I just don't see how you and your people justify this kind of BS and I certaintly don't understand why you and your people allow it to happen.
You are allowed to use reasonable force in the UK just like most states in America. Are you allowed to execute someone for breaking into your house no.
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In England and Wales, anyone can use "reasonable" force to protect themselves or others
Householders can claim they attacked in self-defence if they genuinely believed they were in peril - even if in hindsight they were clearly wrong
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someone who is confronted by a burglar and has reason to fear for their safety, or the safety of their family, and in the heat of the moment uses force that is reasonable in the circumstances but in the cold light of day seems disproportionate, they will not be guilty of an offence.

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Old 09-15-2013, 10:59 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by RemFire View Post
Two things that many American residents don't seem to understand here is that firstly, the Royals carry zero weight on firearms laws (please keep up, that changed long ago ). The Royals are little more than a cultural thing, or like celebrities to many of the British people. Secondly (and therefore) our firearms laws are just the results of our democratic system.
We have our own royalty, Movie Stars, Millionaires and Politicians to name a few! They arent as visible as yours generally but just like yours, they can afford the best protection money can buy! Those same protections that are being denied the citizens in both your nation and ours unless we can pay for it.

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As in any democracy, the majority win over the minority and so we tend to loose out because public opinion in general does not favour anything weapon related here. That's why we aren't even allowed pepper sprays, expanding batons, tasers etc, it's not even just a gun thing even.
Ours is not a Democracy Per se, you cant just vote something in or out because of a majority, it has to be legal and allowed by our Constitution and Bill of Rights. The process of changing those has never been undertaken in reference to the 2A, what they are doing here is not authorized, because of the simple word "Unfettered".
Quote:
Americans will now proudly state that the 2A is a protection from this tyranny of the majority but if that was true then no gun control proposals would even get to the senate for voting, you wouldn't need powerful lobby groups, and you wouldn't need to endlessly lobby your senators. So this is just an illusion you have, which is why the only thing maintaining firearms freedom in the US is your strong gun culture which appears to be waning like it is most places in the Western the world. The more guns in fewer hands is not just a pattern seen in Britain and probably Europe but in America to. You just have a lot further to go before suffering the same effects of this tyranny of the majority, New York and California are just the start of the shift as far as I can see. But I would LOVE to be proven wrong when it comes to this...
I am a proud New Yorker, from the real state of NY, not NY City! We are fighting back and Albanizer Scrooge and his HenchTurds will be evicted from office next election. 9/10th of the county Executives that occupy 95% of the mass of NY have demanded the repeal of "The Safe Act". That will happen.

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Oh and a note for Piers Morgan, we could have a far higher gun ownership rate than the USA if people here wanted to buy guns, because if you have no criminal record, and can buy a gun cabinet and pay the license fee, then all you need to do is get a landowners permission or join a gun club and your entitlement to own firearms cannot be refused by the police.
Funny, you didnt say buy a Gun, You said Buy a Gun Cabinet! Pay a license fee??? Join a Club? Ask Permission from the Lord of the Manor??? Im confused cause you said if people want to buy a gun but they can, it sounds like no simple thing to me!
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:05 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by manta View Post
Lets start by saying that the firearms laws are stricter in the UK than America no one is denying that. As said in another post shooting and firearms ownership is very much a minority pursuit most doint care about firearms one way or another. Anyone can have a firearm in N Ireland if they are over 18 and doint have a violent criminal history whether you are a protestant or catholic has nothing to do with it. To obtain a handgun you have to be in a gun club for other firearms you just need somewhere to shoot it. Police prison officers and others that are under threat have personal protection firearms protestant and catholic.
So in other words, your government treats regular civilians like second class citizens compared to officers and guards. They allow the police to have defensive arms, but severely restrict your right to own guns in general.

Sorry, but I could not live in a country like that without at least fighting for my rights at every turn. I would not accept that no matter what.

Last edited by texaswoodworker; 09-15-2013 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:06 AM   #49
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WebleyFosbery38,

It's still a lot easier and cheaper than keeping a car on the road legally. Most people manage that, the only reason more people don't bother with guns is because it's not in their interests. I don't see what is so confusing.
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Old 09-15-2013, 11:20 AM   #50
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Funny, you didnt say buy a Gun, You said Buy a Gun Cabinet! Pay a license fee??? Join a Club? Ask Permission from the Lord of the Manor??? Im confused cause you said if people want to buy a gun but they can, it sounds like no simple thing to me!
Tru-Dat.
To me it's a better definition of easy that I can walk into a shop and say I want this and put my money down and walk out in under 10 minutes. I can buy a hoe collection form some guy out there and never even have to place the call for a background check. Now THAT sounds a lot closer to easy.

The 3rd weekend in Oct is the Court Days festivals in Mt. Sterling Ky. and Preston Ky. It's one of the biggest gun shows for private sellers. I go every year and walk out with at least one gun every year. Last year I got three.
No land owners, no gun club, not even a gun cabinet if I didn't want a place to it them when I'm not making them dirty.

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our strong gun culture which appears to be waning like it is most places in the Western the world. The more guns in fewer hands is not just a pattern seen in Britain and probably Europe but in America to.
Gun owners a smaller and smaller group? How the hell and anyone say this with the exploding sales since 2008? More people that never owned a firearm before have them now. More so than any time in my half a century on this planet anyway.

People are understanding more every day it's the 2A that helps prop the rest up. With no power in the peoples hands to protect themselves it would be a piece of cake to take away any aspect of the Constitution the feds wished. This is well understood by government. and more often now citizens are understanding ti is not right to allow the very people that the people, might have to protest themselves form be the ones that dictate the ability to self protection.
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