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Old 11-04-2012, 04:05 PM   #101
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What you seem to forget is that those constitutional rights END when you set foot on another's property.

Free speech DOES NOT exist on private property, neither do gun rights...

In fact, it is HIGHLY ILLEGAL in most states to carry a gun onto the property of another person without the owner's expressed consent...and rightly so.

IIRC, in SC if caught carrying in an establishment that prohibits it, it is a felony...goodbye gun rights, hello Bubba and a 6x6 room for a while...

Property owners are WELL WITHIN their rights to deny whoever and whatever they want on their property for whatever reason...If you don't want to do business with say...a muslim, then don't, just don't say that's your reason, then the PC police will hang you from their lib-tree...

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Old 11-04-2012, 04:07 PM   #102
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so Moby if you owned a business and you didn't allow smoking, and you even had a sign saying such, i could just disregard it and smoke anyways?

you somehow believe that your right to carry, trumps a private property owners rights? well don't get bent out of shape when someone does something in your home that you don't agree with.

you seem to me to have little to no respect for the rights of others, but want others to respect your right to carry. does that sum it up pretty much in simple terms? respect is a two way street.

reminds me of the golden rule. treat others as you wish to be treated.

you opened this thread, which is a sort of Pandora's Box. i think even you should be able to see that you are a definate minority in your opinions on this subject. many of us agree with the right to carry, but also there are those who do own their own business's and don't want someone telling us what we may or may not allow and even if we disagree with a business owners policies, we should by all means respect it.

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Old 11-04-2012, 04:17 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
... trumps a private property owners rights?
And herein lies the problem...perhaps a business that invites the public in...should abide by a different set off rules. 'You cannot restrict ones Civil Rights for instance.'

Correction: Constitutional Rights.
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Old 11-04-2012, 04:17 PM   #104
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Again Axx I'm speaking of constitutionaL RIGHTS.
If you own a restaurant can you not serve blacks? How about Muslims?
And I'm only speaking of property open to the PUBLIC. A very key distiction.
We are not talking about one's home and I am speaking ONLY of constituionally protected rights.

you seem to me to have little to no respect for the rights of others, but want others to respect your right to carry. does that sum it up pretty much in simple terms? respect is a two way street.

On the contrary, I respect ALL constitutional rights of others.
Show me in the constitution where you can refuse a person due to race, religion, etc? Why the right to be armed? Shall not be infringed is pretty straight forward and we have allowed it to be comprimised.
Smoking, shoes and shirts, etc are not in the consitution.

And please keep the conversation adult sir and stop insulting and throwing barbs at me.

I simply feel ALL of the constitution should be enforced. Not just some of it.
Just bucause you own a business should not allow you ( it does and I don't agree) to refuse service to some based of certain critieria that are constitutionally protected.

Shoes and shirts or bare chests are not constitutionally protected. Nor is smoking.
Color is, religion is, handicaped access is....IN A PRIVATE BUSINESS!!!!!
I just do not see why the second ammendment isn't.
Why is it any different?
I feel all constitutionally protected rights should be equally protected.

Things outside the constitution such as smoking in a hotel are NOT protected. Like no shoes no shirt no service. It's not protected by the constitution. I also believe on your property that is NOT open to the public protected rights are not as protected. (a handle to start flaming on I know)
But like a private club such as the boy scouts refuse gays...it's private.
A public business is NOT private. Costco is. You must join and in fact they have a no firearms policy. Which is why I cut up my card.
BUT THEY ARE A PRIVATE CLUB NOT OPEN TO THE PUBLIC! You must agree and pay to join. Thus you give up your constitutional rights knowingly.

My opinion stands as my opinion.
ALL constitutionally protected rights should be just that. Protected.
Not some of them, but all of them.

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Old 11-04-2012, 04:30 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Moby View Post
Again Axx I'm speaking of constitutionaL RIGHTS.
If you own a restaurant and you not serve blacks? How about Muslims?
And I'm only speaking of property open to the PUBLIC. A very key distiction.

you seem to me to have little to no respect for the rights of others, but want others to respect your right to carry. does that sum it up pretty much in simple terms? respect is a two way street.

On the contrary, I respect ALL constitutional rights of others.
Show me in the constitution where you can refuse a person due to race, religion, etc?
Why the right to carry? Smoking, shoues and shirts, etc are not in the consitution.
And please keep the conversation adult sir and stop insulting me.
I simply feel ALL of the constitution should be enforced. Not just some of it.
Just bucause you own a business should not allow you ( it does and I don't agree) to refuse service to some based of certain critieria that are constitutionally protected.

Shoes and shirts or bare chests are not constitutionally protected. Nor is smoking.
Color is, religion is, handicaped access is....IN A PRIVATE BUSINESS!!!!!
I just do not see why the second ammendment isn't.
Why is it any different?
BECAUSE you are trying to enforce your rights on others! you are trying to dictate what a business owner can or cannot do with regards to his establishment!

simply put, i can deny service to anyone i want to for any reason i feel is important to me in my business, because it belongs to me, not you! in a privately owned business on private property i have that right. if someone doesn't agree with it, they are free to go elsewhere.

as Vincent said very simply, your rights end at my property line! and that's where mine begin!
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Old 11-04-2012, 04:30 PM   #106
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Is there a difference between a major corporation or publicly traded business versus say a mom-and-pop type store? Or is everybody lumping them all into one?

I feel that if it is open to the public then there should not be a restriction placed on concealed carry. I noticed people have brought up bars and clubs as having dress codes and restricting access because of this. However they cater to a specific crowd and some do have a legal need to specify who is allowed to enter and what they are wearing etc.

I agree that businesses have rights. However I also feel that if they are a public company that those rights are slightly different than those of a private residence or business. Hence my initial question.

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Old 11-04-2012, 04:37 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by axxe55 View Post
simply put, i can deny service to anyone i want to for any reason i feel is important to me in my business, because it belongs to me, not you! in a privately owned business on private property i have that right. if someone doesn't agree with it, they are free to go elsewhere.

as Vincent said very simply, your rights end at my property line! and that's where mine begin!
As you stated just because it's your opinion does not mean you're right.
In fact you are very wrong.

Try not serving blacks because it's "important" to you.
Constituionally protected
Try not serving Jews because it's "important" to you.
Constituionally protected
Try to get a bulding permit to open that business without handicap ramps.
Constituionally protected

ALL ON YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY!
ALL CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED!


That is my point sir. The whole constitution, not just part of it.
I've made my point as clearly as I know how.
I mean no offense to anyone. It's just my committment to my oath.
Something I take very seriouly. If it's in the constitution, it's protected.
I feel it's really that simple. And if it's changed then it's changed.
And I'll still support it still.
I have nothing further to add.
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Old 11-04-2012, 04:38 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dionysus03 View Post
Is there a difference between a major corporation or publicly traded business versus say a mom-and-pop type store? Or is everybody lumping them all into one?

I feel that if it is open to the public then there should not be a restriction placed on concealed carry. I noticed people have brought up bars and clubs as having dress codes and restricting access because of this. However they cater to a specific crowd and some do have a legal need to specify who is allowed to enter and what they are wearing etc.

I agree that businesses have rights. However I also feel that if they are a public company that those rights are slightly different than those of a private residence or business. Hence my initial question.
should not make abit of difference because of the size of the company or business. what is the difference between a board of directors or one man making policy decisions? none IMO.

if we don't agee with their policies, then by gosh, use your wallet to vote. we have the right and freedom of choice to do business with those who are in line with our rights and freedoms. and as such IMO, we should always respect the rights and wishes of others, even wehn we don't agree with them if we want others to respect our rights and wishes.
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Old 11-04-2012, 04:41 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby View Post
As you stated just because it's your opinion does not mean you're right.
In fact you are very wrong.

Try not serving blacks because it's "important" to you.
Constituionally protected
Try not serving Jews because it's "important" to you.
Constituionally protected
Try to get a bulding permit to open that business without handicap ramps.
Constituionally protected

ALL ON YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY!
ALL CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED!


That is my point sir. The whole constitution, not just part of it.
sorry, but those are civil rights not constitutional rights!

and just for clarification, there are still many, many business' that have the sign that says the have the right to refuse service to anyone for whatever reason!
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:04 PM   #110
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^^THIS^^ thread debate reminds me of a tread I posted following the Aurora shooting titled "Ignore gun free zones" and my opinion has not changed.

1. Concealed means concealed

2. Should a gobblin convince me they pose a deadly threat forcing me to present a weapon, the last concern on my mind will be the gun free zone violation I may need to answer for.

Respecting private property rights IS important bit loses ALL signigance when it conflicts with my ability to protect myself and loved ones...

Do I ignore gun buster signs? Yes, DAILY, and I do not give it a second thought.

Any GFZ not backed up with a secure perimiter, armed guards, and metal detectors IS NOT a GFZ...It a LIBTARD wet dream and I do not trouble myself with such nonsense.

Tack

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