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Old 11-04-2012, 02:06 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by CHLChris
In Oregon, the private property owner can make any rule limiting CHL citizens to NOT carry.

You then are legal to carry onto their property. However, if "made" and asked to leave, you must comply or be guilty of criminal trespass.

I carry everywhere and remain willing to leave, if asked. Obviously, I've never been asked. "Concealed" means concealed.
The same applies in Wisconsin. You can ignore the signs but if asked to leave one must comply. Until then you are guilty of nothing - technically - don't want to test that theory though. Haven't heard of that issue arising yet either.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:10 PM   #92
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In Wisconsin so long as you are not drinking you can carry in any establishment that sells alcohol. Provided that individual establishment does not prohibit it.
As for carrying in an place that prohibits it - whose rights are more important?
IMO, the rights of the property owner are primary and should be respected first and foremost. because if not, then where do our rights end in regards to this with our own property and homes?

Mr Moby has some foolish notion that his right to carry supecedes my rights as a property owner. i know that if he were to be of that thinking in some places, he would probably not have a carry permit for long. and quite possibly even get a free stay at the gray bar hotel!
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:36 PM   #93
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Since restaurants are required to provide wheelchair ramps and handicap accommodations to the disabled, a protected class, shouldn't they also provide chairs that comfortably accommodate a firearm, also constitutionally protected. Furthermore shouldn't it be a crime for a business to discriminate against someone practicing their constitutionally protected right, beyond that how about government buildings discriminating against the constitution? Sorry all, just stirring the pot...

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Old 11-04-2012, 02:40 PM   #94
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I am wondering how a business is prevented from discriminating against certain groups. But allowed to prevent others (concealed carry persons) from being allowed. A right which one can argue is protected and guaranteed by the Constitution.

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Old 11-04-2012, 03:08 PM   #95
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I am wondering how a business is prevented from discriminating against certain groups. But allowed to prevent others (concealed carry persons) from being allowed. A right which one can argue is protected and guaranteed by the Constitution.
discrimination is one thing and not allowing people to carry firearms into your establishment is not discrimination IMO. if by Moby's way of thinking, where do we set the boundaries? i see a business as a property owner and he has rights just like everyone else. if i was a business owner and i didn't want people to carry firearms on my property, and someone passed a law that said it was illegal for me to enforce my policies, i see that as unconstitutional!

IMO, the rights of the property owner supercede and trump the right to carry, period. if as a business and property owner, you don't agree, then take your business elsewhere. i don't disagree with a persons right to carry, just as i agree that a property owner has the right either allow or not allow carrying of a firearm. i may not agree with the policy of a business on CC, but i will respect it. just because i want the same respect in regards to my rights.
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:12 PM   #96
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Protected by the 2nd Amendment? Then why can states deny their citizens the right to carry concealed weapons? Many states cities counties prohibit the use of firearms. I think you misunderstand that many restictions can be enforced. The 2nd dictates how far the Federal Law can extend. Please read the history of the Bill Of Rights.

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Old 11-04-2012, 03:32 PM   #97
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Axx55 you seem to be focused on my opinion more than others that seem to agree with it. A typical flame war starter.

Let me state again I could care less about your opinion of my post.
See the 1st amendment.

The constitution already restricts you, on your private business property, from Discrimination against certain rights, right now, today, on your property that is open to the public for profit!! Whether you like it or not!!

I just feel the 2nd amendment should be added to the list of rights that are currently enforced as directed by the constitution !!

And having that opinion, and being able to state it is MY right !!

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Old 11-04-2012, 03:32 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by nitestalker
Protected by the 2nd Amendment? Then why can states deny their citizens the right to carry concealed weapons? Many states cities counties prohibit the use of firearms. I think you misunderstand that many restictions can be enforced. The 2nd dictates how far the Federal Law can extend. Please read the history of the Bill Of Rights.
Hence my use of "can argue" and not "guaranteed by".
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:49 PM   #99
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Axx55 you seem to be focused on my opinion more than others that seem to agree with it. A typical flame war starter.

Let me state again I could care less about your opinion of my post.
See the 1st amendment.

The constitution already restricts you, on your private business property, from Discrimination against certain rights, right now, today, on your property that is open to the public for profit!! Whether you like it or not!!

I just feel the 2nd amendment should be added to the list of rights that are currently enforced as directed by the constitution !!

And having that opinion, and being able to state it is MY right !!
ANYONE who agrees with your opinion and beliefs, i disagree with on this issue. i don't agree with your opinion and am simply execising my 1st admendment right!

and so you feel there needs to be more restriction on a business owner and property owners? and you feel you should be able to dictate what someone should allow or not allow in their establishment? hmmmm... a business can refuse service to someone not wearing shoes or a shirt. some clubs i have been to in the past would not allow a patron to wear a t-shirt, and some would bar entry if not wearing a tie. in other words a dress code that refused service to those not properly attired. by your stance they would not be allowed to do such.

you sir need to understand the rights of others, before you start trying to dictate what your rights are! and by your reasoning, then government buildings, courthouses and other such places are restricting your rights, and just out of curiosity, do you abide by those laws or disregard them?

yes you have your right to your opinion and i respect your right to your opinion, but that doesn't mean your opinion is correct!
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Old 11-04-2012, 03:51 PM   #100
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The same applies in Wisconsin. You can ignore the signs but if asked to leave one must comply. Until then you are guilty of nothing - technically - don't want to test that theory though. Haven't heard of that issue arising yet either.
This is the same in Texas. Although if one is following the law and concealed means concealed, it should never arise. I do feel private BUSINESS property owners. Profiting from the public, being open to the public, should have to follow the constitution.

"The right to bear arms shall not be infringed", by business property owners should be as equally enforced as not discriminating against color or religion, or handicapped, etc. Why are some rights OK to protect in a private business that is open to the publicand others are not? Are some rights less valuable in the constitution than others?

Many took an oath to defend that document. Against all enemy's foreign and domestic.....EXCEPT private business property owners? I didn't read that part. In my opinion I just don't agree. Should that offend a few, tough!!!!! It's my right to have said opinion.
I support the entire constitution, every word, on every person, in every public place.

I do not like Muslims (yes I know and except that makes me a bigot) but if one walked into my business I would not throw him/her out. Because that same document says I shouldn’t. And it’s what freedom is built on. While I wouldn't like it, I would sell them a puppy with a smile. Because maybe they want to live under that document as well. And I do not have the ability to read what's in their heart. If they support the constitution, then their welcome in my mind.

Just because you own a business does not give you the right to determin what constitutional rights you'll allow. If the courts have said you cannot discriminate against one right IN YOUR BUSINESS, I feel you shouldn't be allowed to discriminate against any of them.

My PERSONAL OPINION is the courts should not pick and choose which rights people can enforce or ignor. Enforce them all, ignor them all, or change them and enforce what's left.
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