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Old 05-15-2011, 10:45 PM   #51
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My thoughts... draw down on the invader and tell him to freeze, if he runs away, fine. If he makes any movement toward you, empty your gun in him. If he freezes, order him - hands up and face down, and tell him any attempt to get up, and you'll unload on him....BTW, good discussion here. Thanks OP...
Indeed, but something to ponder here. Most often, BG's confronted and ordered to stop and freeze by armed LE, with a gun trained on them, take off and flee anyways.

Do yourself a favor, Just shoot them. Save the taxpayers some money and the over burdened and sometimes often, incompetent judiciary system the trouble of the litigation and sentencing, and there is one less tax burden to send to overcrowded jails and prisons.

More importantly, you get some experience shooting a real, live moving target, instead of them paper or steel targets. YMMV

Just typing out loud.....
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Old 05-15-2011, 11:23 PM   #52
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If an intruder or burglar were to enter my home uninvited. Chances are they are definitely packing a weapon of some sort. But just the idea that they are there for reasons that are considered dangerous and perhaps life-threatening, if you FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE and the LIVES OF YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS, chances are self-preservation will kick in.

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Old 05-16-2011, 02:26 PM   #53
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You call it murder, I call it defending your home. I dont care if he has his hands up, he is in MY home, and how do I know he doesnt have a pistol in his pocket or concealed somewhere that he didnt get the chance to pull?

And just because you shoot somebody in the back does NOT mean they are fleeing. If you live alone, you wake up in the middle of the night to a noise, go out your bedroom door and see a man that has just walked past and you shoot, he was not fleeing you just had the drop on him. What if he was holding you at gun point and he didnt know you had a pistol in your pocket
and he turned around long enough for whatever reason and you had a shot?
Hopefully, you won't have to face parrot-lawyer in court,

squawking "AWWWK! He shot him in the back!

He shot him in the back!" about 300 times during the course of a

legal proceeding...
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Old 05-16-2011, 02:39 PM   #54
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Indeed, but something to ponder here. Most often, BG's confronted and ordered to stop and freeze by armed LE, with a gun trained on them, take off and flee anyways......
Good point. Actually I think I'd prefer them to take off running. The last thing I'd want to have to do is shoot someone. I would think if you have to kill someone, legally, your world turns to sh*t for a good while after that.
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Old 05-16-2011, 04:50 PM   #55
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I would think if you have to kill someone, legally, your world turns to sh*t for a good while after that.
Not in Oklahoma, it's a justifiable shoot, because of...
Castle Law Doctrine and Stand Your Ground Law, relating to home, property and business.
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Old 05-16-2011, 05:31 PM   #56
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A tad off topic, I came across a really funny one. Seems a robber wanted the leather jacket from a victim. the victim refused to give it over and was aggressive in his refusal. The robber shot and killed the victim, then CLAIMED SELF-DEFENSE.


Thankfully he lost and also lost on appeal. I really like this part:


"In this case, the trial court correctly ruled that the heat-of-passion instruction could not be given even under Smith's version of the facts. No rational factfinder could find that Mosley, a victim of an armed robbery, did anything that objectively speaking could be said to have reasonably provoked Smith to shoot him. At most, the evidence showed only that Mosley attempted to defend himself and refused to turn over his leather jacket to Smith. Cf. Humphrey v. Commonwealth, 37 Va. App. 36, 49, 553 S.E.2d 546, 552 (2001) ("A person who reasonably apprehends [imminent] bodily harm by another is privileged to exercise reasonable force to repel the assault." (quoting Diffendal v. Commonwealth, 8 Va. App. 417, 421, 382 S.E.2d 24, 25 (1989))); Connell v. Commonwealth, 34 Va. App. 429, 439, 542 S.E.2d 49, 54 (2001) ("One who is assaulted may and usually does defend himself, the ensuing struggle cannot be accurately described as a mutual combat.").

As the Virginia Supreme Court has explained, a "man cannot go a-gunning for an adversary and kill him on the first appearance of resistance, and rely upon the necessity of the killing as an excuse therefor."


So, don't pick a fight then claim self-defense for the assault.

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Old 05-16-2011, 08:34 PM   #57
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FWIW. After years of training and planning, I never know what I will do until faced with a particular set of circumstances.

In self-defense, deadly force isn't usually premeditated. Things happen fast and unexpected, be sure that the "good guy" walks away.

Legal ? All that can vary too. No matter what you were advised in advance. Say nothing. Call an attorney, at least you will be around to deal with the legal issues.

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Old 05-17-2011, 04:22 AM   #58
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As someone who has had an intruder in his home and waited, gun in hand, for what seemed like an eternity, for the cops to show up, I will testify to the fact that you can't really know what you will do or how you will react until it happens to you. And it will stick with you for a very long time, even if things end peacefully. You will feel violated. You will feel unsafe in your own home. Every noise in the night is greeted with loaded gun and flashlight, even if it's just a stupid cricket.

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Old 05-17-2011, 04:50 PM   #59
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Old 05-18-2011, 06:42 PM   #60
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This is what I found on "citizen's arrest"
Each state, with the exception of North Carolina, permits citizen arrests if the commission of a felony is witnessed by the arresting citizen, or when a citizen is asked to assist in the apprehension of a suspect by police. The application of state laws varies widely with respect to misdemeanors, breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party. For example, Arizona law allows a citizen's arrest only for a misdemeanor which disturbs the peace, and only if the arrestor has personally witnessed the offense occurring.[33]

American citizens do not carry the authority or enjoy the legal protections held by police officers, and are held to the principle of strict liability before the courts of civil- and criminal law including, but not limited to, any infringement of another's rights.[34] Nonetheless many citizens' arrests are popular news stories and criminal prosecutions in clearly justifiable cases are rare.[35]

Though North Carolina General Statutes have no provision for citizens' arrests, detention by private persons is permitted and applies to both private citizens and police officers outside their jurisdiction.[36] Detention is permitted where probable cause exists that one has committed a felony, breach of peace, physical injury to another person, or theft or destruction of property.[37] Detention is different from an arrest in that in a detention the detainee may not be transported without consent.
It says nothing about guns, what I have found is that all things, laws included, are subject to interpretation and that interpretation is more a function of power than actual reality.

I live with four roommates who NEVER lock doors, I'm obsessive about it, I come in the house the first thing I do is lock the door behind me. (They call me paranoid.) About a month ago a slightly drunk man found his way into my apartment; I had a shotgun leveled at his face and he looked at me and said what are you going to do shoot me? At that point I figured he was too drunk to be an actual threat so I just told him to get out. If he hadn't backed out of the door when I told him too I would have shot him.... My roommates lock the door now I win

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