Firearm & Gun Forum - FireArmsTalk.com > General Firearms Forums > Legal and Activism > Here is how I would do it if I was a power hungry evil government stooge

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Old 05-20-2010, 12:37 PM   #51
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The issue of gun owners being legal vs. illegal, has more to do with ones belief in where the line is drawn. I support the legal way to remove a bad law or a dick head in office, but there is a limit as to what I will do and not do.

If a piece of crap anti-gunner gets something passed that bans all personal firearms ownership, our legal recourse is to fight it in court and at the polls. To stay a legal person under that circumstance I would have to turn in all my weapons for destruction while I wait many years for some court to decide if the law is valid or not. This I cannot do, and would become a criminal by the very law that is un-Constitutional.

So if by not following a bad law we can either submit and become sheep while the law is being contested or we can become a criminal subject to being hunted down arrested or killed in the name of a bad law. The choice has to lay with the person it effects, and if enough make the stand and say no I will not surrender my firearms then either the government can STFU and go away or they can shoot to kill. Once the government crosses the line of killing and/or imprisoning people who do not bow to their dictatorship then it is war.

If one person makes a stand against what they perceive as an inequity of the law, and a governing body removes him/her from society one way or the other then we all tend to shake our heads and say he should have been law abiding instead of making a stand on his/her behalf and demanding redress of his grievance.

Right now in America there is someplace around 95 million legal gun owners, now that depends on whose version of legal we are using. The brady bunch believes anyone possessing a gun is a criminal at best so according to them we are all already criminals in there eyes. The same applies to Bloomberg and others who are punks in our society. So if they can pass or get a law passed outlawing any form of private gun ownership then we all become lawbreakers and they have no sympathy for any of us.

In the eyes of mayor daley of chitcago you already are a criminal for even thinking about owning a gun. So in essence we already are illegal according to some people and many are in some form of power that can decide if we will spend a long time in club fed or maybe just die.

End game and question is, “where do you draw the line?”

opaww

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Old 05-21-2010, 06:46 PM   #52
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Here is my line-

"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
United States Constitution, Second Amendment, 1789

If 'they come for me' and I fight back,the court of popular opinion will not matter to me.

There will be a higher court than any on Earth which will be involved at that point.

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Old 05-21-2010, 06:53 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by opaww View Post

To anyone who thinks banning guns will stop the killings of innocent people you really need to look at the world in the 20th century, with some place around 150,000,000 humans exterminated in genocide with no ability to defend themselves because of gun control. That's right 150,000,000 people in the world died in the 20th century because they were not allowed to own guns to fight off these mass murders.
http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f13/innocents-betrayed-see-proof-27365/
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Old 06-07-2010, 07:49 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Kimber45 View Post
1. Ban all fire arms and require that all firearms be turned in at your local police station within 30 days.
2. Anyone caught with a firearm after 30 days gets 10 years hard labor.
3. Anyone who has a registered firearm that doesn't turn it in within 30 days cannot receive any government benefit, be it a drivers liscense, welfare, unemployment, medicare, etc. Also, they will be fined $1000 a day for every day after 30 that they haven't turned in the weapon. The money will be automatically deducted from your paycheck/bank accounts/401K. Any fines that you don't pay will result in siezure of your assets. Bank accounts, house, car, etc. Your children will have to be taken from you as well because you can't care for them and will become wards of the state.
4. Anyone who provides information to law enforcement that results in the confiscation of a firearm will receive a bounty of $10,000.
5. If someone tells a law enforcement official that you have a firearm, you will be required to turn it in to the police within 30 days or you will be treated as in item #3. It will be assumed that you have a firearm whether you do or not.

I wouldn't even bother with house to house searches.
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Second, you need to check your stats. Since Australia banned firearms, firearm-related crimes have risen significantly. Just 12 months after the new laws banning all semi-autos and pump shotguns went into effect, across Australia homicides jumped 3.2 percent, armed robberies were up a whopping 44 percent, assaults up 8.6 percent, and in the state of Victoria there was a 300 percent increase in homicides. Whether these were all committed with illegal firearms is moot; the good guys had no way to defend themselves.


This makes my blood boil. This tripe is the same crap spewed by the Brady Bunch. It is factually wrong -- prohibition does not work. Statistics bear out the fact that in locales where gun control laws are stricter, crime rates are higher and where gun control laws are more lax, crime rates are lower.

Does it really need to be said, on this of all forums, that "clamping down on the supply of guns" will disarm those not inclined to commit crimes thus depriving themselves of a fundamental natural right to defend themselves, their families, their property, wealth and liberty?

Completely agree with your premise on self-defence, bkt.


Howwever, those stats you mentioned are in fact dead wrong (they even get a page on snopes: snopes.com: Australian Guns Stats). Yes there might have been an increase in homicides in Victoria over 15 years from '95 onwards, but this was largely due to the bloody "Gangland War" fought between competing criminals over the speed trade....would have bumped that State's figures up a bit!


The homicide rate here has been in decline since before the laws went into effect, Buyback has no effect on murder rate - National - smh.com.au so actually the much-lauded "Buyback" was a total waste of time re 'reducing crime' (as every law-abiding shooter knew it would be).

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The report by two Australian academics, published in the British Journal of Criminology, said statistics gathered in the decade since Port Arthur showed gun deaths had been declining well before 1996 and the buyback of more than 600,000 mainly semi-automatic rifles and pump-action shotguns had made no difference in the rate of decline.

The only area where the package of Commonwealth and State laws, known as the National Firearms Agreement (NFA) may have had some impact was on the rate of suicide, but the study said the evidence was not clear and any reductions attributable to the new gun rules were slight.

"Homicide patterns (firearm and non-firearm) were not influenced by the NFA, the conclusion being that the gun buyback and restrictive legislative changes had no influence on firearm homicide in Australia," the study says.

In his first year in office, the Prime Minister, John Howard, forced through some of the world's toughest gun laws, including the national buyback scheme, after Martin Bryant used semi-automatic rifles to shoot dead 35 people at Port Arthur.

Although furious licensed gun-owners said the laws would have no impact because criminals would not hand in their guns, Mr Howard and others predicted the removal of so many guns from the community, and new laws making it harder to buy and keep guns, would lead to a reduction in all types of gun-related deaths.

One of the authors of the study, Jeanine Baker, said she knew in 1996 it would be impossible for years to know whether the Prime Minister or the shooters were right.

"I have been collecting data since 1996 … The decision was we would wait for a decade and then evaluate," she said.

The findings were clear, she said: "The policy has made no difference. There was a trend of declining deaths that has continued."

Unfortunately, the "good guys" here have NEVER had the legal option to defend ourselves (as snopes points out), so there can be no cause-and-effect between removing guns from the population and an increase in violent crime, due to us being "unarmed"....even if in fact those rates HAD increased. Which they didn't.


Not trying to call you out, bkt Like many others, I'm guessing you probably saw this 'email' (see it reprinted on that page), supposedly by an Ed Chenel, aussie police officer. Sounds reasonable to an outsider who would quite understandably not be knowledgable about our laws.
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Yes, at WalMart, you can pick up a gun, ammo, ski mask and your antidepressants all in one trip. Darn convenient if you ask me...:D
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:46 AM   #55
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I think it's pretty self-evident that clamping down on the supply of guns in the country is a good way to prevent gun-related violence. If no guns are available, people can't shoot each other. Will a few still succeed in getting guns? Yes, but the overall numbers will be drastically reduced. As I said, look at most European countries.

Seems any reading I see about firearm violence in the UK shows that gun crime is up after their gun control laws. So I have a problem believing that "clamping down on the supply of guns" has not done much more than drove prices up.In talking to people that live in the UK this seems to be true. I have a few friends that live in a few areas in Europe and this seems to be the way it is all over the UK. I can't speak as much about other European countries as I don't know people to ask but that's the info I get from people living in the UK. From what they say only the ones abiding the laws don't have the weapons. But out of the people I asked about it they all knew where to get a firearm if they wanted to. And these people are not criminals so the supply can't be as dry as the laws tried to make it.
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Old 06-07-2010, 11:15 AM   #56
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Seems any reading I see about firearm violence in the UK shows that gun crime is up after their gun control laws. So I have a problem believing that "clamping down on the supply of guns" has not done much more than drove prices up.In talking to people that live in the UK this seems to be true. I have a few friends that live in a few areas in Europe and this seems to be the way it is all over the UK. I can't speak as much about other European countries as I don't know people to ask but that's the info I get from people living in the UK. From what they say only the ones abiding the laws don't have the weapons. But out of the people I asked about it they all knew where to get a firearm if they wanted to. And these people are not criminals so the supply can't be as dry as the laws tried to make it.

Indeed, gun crime in the UK is up>> Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade What politicians never seem to realise (and here this was the genesis of our 'useless' laws) is that it is CRIMINALS who obtain the [largely illegal] weapons to commit crime. An extremely small number of firearms are stolen from lawful owners and used in committing offences. In fact in Aust its about .06% of handguns used in crime come from legally registered and licensed owners.

Some are also sourced from police and military stores (including RPGs and assault rifles) often through corrupt behaviour [Army link to stolen weaponry] so the Govt can hardly talk when their own security is lax
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Yes, at WalMart, you can pick up a gun, ammo, ski mask and your antidepressants all in one trip. Darn convenient if you ask me...:D
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Old 06-11-2010, 12:07 PM   #57
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If anyone out there believes that reducing the amount of guns on the streets, even to law abiding citizens has helped control gun violence please look to Chicago where handguns are currently (hopefully not for long) banned. Chicago has turned into the wild west and the city will be up for grabs soon as soon as the weather gets really warm. They were even thinking about bringing in the military! Gun crimes there have risen exponentially despite any and all laws. Chicago is a 100% perfect example of how gun laws and prohibition of CCW and legal handgun ownership have COMPLETELY FAILED.

Ordinary Citizens don't have the right to protect themselves but those who work for the government including all of Chicago's alderman have the right to carry a firearm. In Illinois we have to apply for a FOID (FIREARM OWNER IDENTIFICATION) card which is just another way to regulate us and make more $ for the state. Thank God I live blocks from Indiana where it is still America. In Chicago your 2nd amendment rights only apply if you work for those who deny other's their rights. Its so sick.

I really need to move to Florida.

We can have all the banter we want back and forth between one another but the sad reality we all have to face is there are people out there who do not think like us no matter what information we give or arguments we win. People who just don't understand that self preservation through any means necessary is a god given HUMAN right. There are people who live in LA La land and think the world is a perfect place. In a perfect world we wouldn't need guns but this isn't a perfect world.

People also seem to forget that there has been killing and wars long before there were any guns. In the future there may be something else. Maybe we need to ammend the constitution now to include any future weapons designed so our ancestors don't face the same problems we are having now with guns. Perhaps then my great-great grandchildren won't need a permit to carry around their lightsaber.

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Old 06-11-2010, 06:42 PM   #58
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Chicago has turned into the wild west and the city will be up for grabs soon as soon as the weather gets really warm. They were even thinking about bringing in the military! Gun crimes there have risen exponentially despite any and all laws. Chicago is a 100% perfect example of how gun laws and prohibition of CCW and legal handgun ownership have COMPLETELY FAILED.
I'll bet my left one that Dodge City circa 1880-1890 was a whole hell of alot safer than Chicago is today.
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Old 06-12-2010, 08:20 PM   #59
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"Chicago has turned into the wild west and the city will be up for grabs soon as soon as the weather gets really warm. They were even thinking about bringing in the military! Gun crimes there have risen exponentially despite any and all laws. Chicago is a 100% perfect example of how gun laws and prohibition of CCW and legal handgun ownership have COMPLETELY FAILED."

LOL! Gun laws failed? Chicago has the most stringent gun laws in the US and that is the problem. The average citizen cannot own a firearm so like the old saying goes, and is proven here by your example, "When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will own guns". My $.02, repeal all laws that restrict the ownership of firearms, and when a firearms is used to maim or kill another in a crime, send the criminal to the chair. Our laws are too lenient, our judges too corrupt and our government becoming more tyrannical by the day.
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:31 PM   #60
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The CHAIR!?!...But...But...thats CRUEL AND INHUMAN to put people who rape and murder other people in horrible and disgusting ways to DEATH!!!!!

LOL>Now lets go get a rope!

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