Here is how I would do it if I was a power hungry evil government stooge - Page 3
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Old 05-19-2010, 08:51 PM   #21
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The fact of the matter is the law is the law.
So should we take that to mean that if the Federal government banned all firearms, you would turn yours in?

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There are proper ways to get bad laws stricken from the books.
When the system works or when there is a system in place that allows for that, yes. We still have a functioning system, and my sincere hope is that next November we will replace the legislature with one that will undo the crap done by the current one.

But when the law is unjust and conflicts with other more longstanding laws, what then? What's your take on the intolerable acts?

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Just choosing to ignore the laws you don't agree with is not something that anyone should condone.
"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes..." ...but at some point you have to put an end to the crap.

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I do not think anyone on this forum should even tacitly agree that breaking the law - even a bad law - is a proper course of action.
I would just say that individuals must think for themselves. Unless you have executed a plan to nullify or repeal a bad law, you will have fallen into the trap of complacency which breeds more bad laws.
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Old 05-19-2010, 08:58 PM   #22
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Interesting discussion: follow the law foolish or not?

As far as i know, i am in compliance with all firearms laws in my area (even the 922 crap for my SKS); if the laws become more restrictive, my compliance status will probably change too. When all the laws are "right", i will be a perfectly law-abiding person.

I would not advise anyone to break a law based on my opinion. People should make up their own minds about how important it is to them to be in compliance with the law. People shouldn't ask me for legal advice, except maybe about taxes.

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Old 05-19-2010, 09:08 PM   #23
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Interesting discussion: follow the law foolish or not?

As far as i know, i am in compliance with all firearms laws in my area (even the 922 crap for my SKS); if the laws become more restrictive, my compliance status will probably change too. When all the laws are "right", i will be a perfectly law-abiding person.

I would not advise anyone to break a law based on my opinion. People should make up their own minds about how important it is to them to be in compliance with the law. People shouldn't ask me for legal advice, except maybe about taxes.
I'll add one more comment. Yes, people can make up their own minds about whether to be in compliance with the law. All I ask is not to whine when they are thrown in jail - actions have consequences so cowboy up if you choose to be a rebel.

I sometimes feel that many rabid 2A supporters actually want organized civil disobedience - I for one have not lost faith that we can still fix this mess without resorting to shooting my neighbors...
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Old 05-19-2010, 09:31 PM   #24
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I have trouble understanding a 'the law is the law' approach to justify obedience to 'gun control'.
If the 'law is the law',what happened to the law that reads in part-"The Right of The People to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed"?

Last time I looked,that law was supported by the Supremacy Clause,which reads in part-

"This Constitution.......... shall be the supreme Law of the Land......"

I fully understand that its not a good idea to be talking about violating the 'laws' that the government enforces with a JACKBOOT - DESPITE the Constitution prohibiting it from doing so,because we dont need/want any 'attention' of said Jack Booted Thugs aimed in our direction.....
....but there comes a time when we must all denounce unjust usurpations of liberty by government,even if that means people we might not like having that liberty are free to excersize it-for the sake of argument,I would rather suffer the inconveniences of a small criminal class than a government that 'protects' me by turning inalienable rights into government administered privileges(at taxpayers' expense,of course).

If your worried about a career criminal getting access to guns,its not like 'gun control' is going to stop him.Only being permanently removed from society will do that.
'Gun control' only places the burden on the rest of us to 'prove our eligibility' to excersize a supposedly inalienable right.

'Gun control',when viewed in context of its 'accomplishments',can be said to be two things-a dismal failure at controlling violent crime,or a glowing success at reducing an inalienable right to a government administered privilege.

'Gun control' is racist and evil - regarding the law which established the 'prohibited possessor' list,it is a foreign and unwholesome restriction on the unalienable rights of American citizens,with roots in Wiemar/Nazi 'gun control' laws.

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/origins-gun-control-act-1968-warning-long-26881/

Around the same time Hitler was disarming his victims for the Holocaust,this was said-
"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." – Mao Zedong (1938)

Hence,'gun control' is not about your safety.It is not about keeping dangerous people unarmed.It is about only ONE thing:'control'.

'Gun control' must be denounced.

And to hell what those who support it might say about it-its hard to understand their opinions anyway,what with their heads so far up their backsides.......

One way to get the illegitimate,illegal and anti-Constitutional 'gun control' laws removed 'from the books' is if we as a people refuse to abide them.This means refusing to obey them and enforce them.

Another way is something thats happening right as we speak-there are 8 states who have adopted the Firearms Freedom Act.

'Gun Control' enacted by the Government is blatantly illegal.

We should all be able to agree on that point if we understand the meaning and intent of the Second Amendment.

"Can our form of government, our system of justice, survive if one can be denied a freedom because he might abuse it?" – Harlon Carter

As to discussing who is violating the illegitimate mala prohibita laws in public or in a publicly available format-

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Old 05-19-2010, 09:33 PM   #25
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I'll add one more comment. Yes, people can make up their own minds about whether to be in compliance with the law. All I ask is not to whine when they are thrown in jail - actions have consequences so cowboy up if you choose to be a rebel.

I sometimes feel that many rabid 2A supporters actually want organized civil disobedience - I for one have not lost faith that we can still fix this mess without resorting to shooting my neighbors...
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." – P.J. O'Rourke (1993)

I believe we can fix it peacefully too-I would like to see the whole concept proven to be the evil it is and denounced from the rooftops from Sea To Shining Sea.
I would like all Americans to recognize that government is the LAST entity that can be trusted with a monopoly on the use of force,as has been proven historically to be very true.

I have TONS of faith in the Firearms Freedom Acts,and monitor the developments in those acts of legislative defiance against federal 'gun control' daily-

http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/nullification/firearms-freedom-act/
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Old 05-19-2010, 09:49 PM   #26
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As to the topics covered in the original post-

From my above mentioned post here:

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/origins-gun-control-act-1968-warning-long-26881/

Quote:
Gun Registration

German Law1928 called for complete registration of all firearms and firearms owners through the issuance of permits.

A "defacto" or back-door registration system was created with ATF Form 4473 which was termed "the Yellow Sheet" for decades, and is essentially gun registration. While this information will usually lay dormant at the FFL's business, it is subject to release to any BATFE agent for virtually any reason. Once in the hands of federal agents, the firearm and owner are essentially "registered."
There is no such thing as 'reasonable' 'gun control'-it will always grow more and more 'controlling' to cover more and more types of weapons and people,to the point where only those who espouse 'gun control' have 'control'.


Just like Mao,Pol Pot,Hitler and Stalin.


No one can accuse me of 'wanting' violence to 'overthrow' the current government because of 'gun control'.I would like to see government restored peacefully to its lawful Constitutional limits-I want LIMITED government,as per the Constitution-I have no wish to overthrow American government.

But I do have the right of self defense.

Given the history of governments that enact 'gun control',could anyone ever level an accusation of lawlessness at those who would react violently to a government that utilizes such control to enable policies of democide?

That would be like accusing the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising of violent lawlessness.....there is a point that government can reach when it goes so far out of control that it becomes a tyrannical threat to life and liberty.Government becomes the criminal.We may not be there yet;but to ignore that in historical reality,'gun control' has been used as the tool of murderous dictators and pretend that 'it cant happen here' is as futile as burying your head in the sand during a hurricane.

Our Founders knew it.

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themsleves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson

I'm not on any 'prohibited' lists right now-but if this was 1942 Germany-I would be.

NEVER AGAIN!
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Old 05-19-2010, 10:23 PM   #27
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I'll add one more comment. Yes, people can make up their own minds about whether to be in compliance with the law. All I ask is not to whine when they are thrown in jail - actions have consequences so cowboy up if you choose to be a rebel.
I agree; if i'm ever caught, i won't cry about it (OK, maybe to my lawyer).
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Old 05-19-2010, 10:31 PM   #28
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Sold what I didn't lose in the boating accident to Gary...they are his problem now.

On a more serious note neither Heller, Heller II (recently dismissed I believe) nor McDonald will settle the issue until SCOTUS incorporates the 2A. States are given way too much leniency to regulate gun ownership and only get rebuked when they run up against existing Federal law.

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Old 05-19-2010, 10:32 PM   #29
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I agree; if i'm ever caught, i won't cry about it (OK, maybe to my lawyer).
Hell,orange-there have been stiffer penalties paid by people choosing to disobey tyranny than three hots and a cot and a rent-free roof over ones head.

Free medical and dental too.

What amazes me most is the tolerance of the taxpayer in funding such ridiculously expensive prosecutions and 'punishments' for victimless 'crimes' such as owning an 'illegal' weapon.......
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Old 05-19-2010, 11:01 PM   #30
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On a more serious note neither Heller, Heller II (recently dismissed I believe) nor McDonald will settle the issue until SCOTUS incorporates the 2A. States are given way too much leniency to regulate gun ownership and only get rebuked when they run up against existing Federal law.
By 'Heller II' do you mean McDonald v. City of Chicago?

I believe that hasnt been ruled on yet,theres nothing on the website put up by SAF-

ChicagoGunCase.com

?
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http://jpfo.org/
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