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-   -   Help me with a Canadian debate (http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f97/help-me-canadian-debate-27969/)

themyst 06-05-2010 08:34 PM

Help me with a Canadian debate
 
I'm having a discussion of sorts with a person on a different forum about gun ownership. She is very happy that Toronto (Canada) doesn't have people walking around with guns and claims Toronto has a very low crime rate because of it. I did a preliminary look up and it seems they do have a pretty low crime rate.

But, I know lack of gun ownership does not = lower crime. So, I'm really not sure what the correlation is there.

I notice that Labrador and Newfoundland have a very high rate of gun ownership and their crime rates are low, too.

I'm not a very good arguer. Does anyone have a good place for statistics regarding the Canadian gun control situation?

JSDinTexas 06-05-2010 09:39 PM

While I try to post correct answers or reply with some knowledge or meaningful response, in this case I can only say don't waste your time.

If you just have to, I would not rely on stats, but ask the simple question, what are cops for and what do they do?
Answer: uphold and enforce the law and protect citizens and themselves, where possible, with professional knowledge and skills.

In having and carrying a firearm, that is what I am doing.

bkt 06-06-2010 01:55 AM

Fear Fueling Gun Violence - Toronto Sun newspaper

Toronto struggles with rising gun violence

Staring down the barrel - CBC Toronto

Toronto's battle against gun violence and gangs

Google "gun violence" and toronto and you'll find a bunch more articles.

My brother lives in Toronto and we visit him often. 30 years ago, it was far safer than it is today. Gangs today are a huge problem there, and oddly enough they don't seem to worry about Ontario's gun control laws.

My sister-in-law is under the impression American cities are horrifically dangerous but that Toronto is safe. The fact is, there's no discernible difference anymore between that city and most American cities.

Lack of criminals lowers crime. Lack of law-abiding gun owners attracts criminals. Do the math.

skullcrusher 06-06-2010 02:36 AM

I have to ask what is a low crime rate? Compared to where?

Also keep in mind that Canada has also decriminalized certain things that are still illegal here in the states, and that will account for some reduced crime rates.

But, you will never win an arguement with anti-gunners. You can provide stats until you are exhausted, and they will still blame guns for crimes. Ask this person if they feel safe enough to walk through the whole city of Toronto at 3 am alone. A truthful answer will be no. Then ask them if they would feel safer if walking along side an armed police officer at the same time of morning. A truthful answer will be yes.

c3shooter 06-06-2010 03:18 AM

I would be terrified to walk the streets in Toronto- drunk drivers. With all those cars, there must be drunk drivers.

Please note, the above IS hyperbole- just as is equating gun ownership with criminal acts. MOST cars are not driven by drunks, and MOST guns are not used by criminals.

However, you have a language barrier problem to deal with here. You are talking sense, and she is not. Let me know how that works out for ya. :rolleyes:

themyst 06-06-2010 04:02 AM

I've decided to let it go. She also claimed that she felt it was best to give a criminal whatever they wanted and just pick yourself up and get over it. :eek: Err, can't do that if you're dead. :rolleyes: I was really kind of shocked that anyone thought that way - and later, I figured her own comment did her in enough without me pursuing it further.

Last Crow 06-06-2010 04:16 AM

Switzerland has a low crime rate and there is an automatic weapon in almost every home. Mexico has a high crime rate and they have very strong gun control. England had low crime rates at one time now that they have strong gun control there crime rates are also up. The stats on England are easy to find. Crime rates have been going down over the years as gun ownership and CC has been going up in the US.

Pat-inCO 06-06-2010 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themyst
I figured her own comment did her in enough without me pursuing it further.

Sounds like an excellent decision.

When she is the victim of crime, she may well rethink her position (presuming she survives). :rolleyes:

Ruger44 09-12-2010 03:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themyst (Post 295617)
I've decided to let it go. She also claimed that she felt it was best to give a criminal whatever they wanted and just pick yourself up and get over it. :eek: Err, can't do that if you're dead. :rolleyes: I was really kind of shocked that anyone thought that way - and later, I figured her own comment did her in enough without me pursuing it further.

What a dimwit. So, she's walking down the street with her five year old daughter, and someone tries to snatch the child - and she just stands there and does nothing? Or, someone attacks her physically and she dosen't try to fend off the miscreant? Unbelievable!!!

Angry_bald_guy 09-12-2010 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruger44 (Post 349174)
What a dimwit. So, she's walking down the street with her five year old daughter, and someone tries to snatch the child - and she just stands there and does nothing? Or, someone attacks her physically and she dosen't try to fend off the miscreant? Unbelievable!!!

I don't know a single mother around here that would just allow their child to be taken without putting up a fight. A fight that would be much easier if the mother was armed with a firearm.


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