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Old 03-13-2012, 05:17 AM   #211
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Followup: While searching on the Illinois State Police website, I ran across the following:

"Public Act 92-0238, Illinois Compiled Statutes (430 ILCS 65/13.3), approved on August 3, 2001, amends the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. This amendment requires that within 6 months after the effective date, every municipality must submit to the Illinois State Police a copy of every ordinance adopted by the municipality that regulates the acquisition, possession, or transfer of firearms within the municipality and must submit, as soon as possible after adoption, every such ordinance adopted after the initial submission. Public Act 92-0238, Illinois Compiled Statutes (430 ILCS 65/13.3), also provides that the Illinois State Police shall compile the ordinances and publish them in a form available to the public free of charge and shall periodically update the compilation.

In compliance with Public Act 92-0238, Illinois Compiled Statutes (430 ILCS 65/13.3), electronic copies of the ordinances submitted to the Illinois State Police have been compiled and published here. This site will be periodically updated as needed. If additional information regarding a specific ordinance is needed, please feel free to contact the specific municipality.

Note: The ordinances are in Adobe Acrobat Reader format. You need the current version of Adobe Acrobat Reader to view these ordinances.Municipalities wishing to submit ordinances to this site may do so by contacting:

Illinois State Police
Firearm Owner's Identification Program
Post Office Box 19233
Springfield, Illinois 62794-9233

(217)782-3310"

That quote is from a page which lists links to the PDF files for the various municipalities that have enacted special local ordinances. Gurnee is notable by its absence. Gurnee is in Lake County and Lake County does not appear on the list of links either. The webpage quoted above is http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/ordinances.cfm

If any of you out there are Internet Mavens, you might want to see if the www.isp.state.il.us website contains actual statute wording on this subject. So far all the actual statute wording we have found is in the FOID Act and that wording appears to say exactly the opposite of what the Illinois State Police have stated. I did find an assertion that all the firearm legislation is contained in one of 3 acts: Criminal Code, Wildlife Code and Firearms Owners Identification Act. At least we know where to look.

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Old 03-13-2012, 05:17 AM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Balota View Post
Sent an e-mail to ASKISP @ ISP.STATE.IL.US which is a link on the Illinois State Police website. The email topic was Officer Mark Marston and the body also addresses itself to Mr. Marston. It's a rather lengthy e-mail explaining the background of our question. The final paragraph was this:

"We have heard from both Mr. Whiteley and other independent inquiries to BPS that the basis for their policy to refuse to sell handgun ammunition to nonresidents is this: Illinois State Police have told us (BPS) that it is illegal to sell handgun ammunition to nonresidents. Can you provide us with the citation within the law that supports this statement?

Thank you for your time and for your service.

Best regards,

Jeff White
balota@yahoo.com"

The "other independent inquiries" refers to the response I got this morning from Patrick at the Tulsa BPS store. Patrick contacted the firearms specialist in the main office that is involved in communicating BPS policies. Patrick was told that it is illegal in Illinois to sell handgun ammunition to nonresidents. Period. Long gun ammo is OK, but not handgun. Patrick did not have the citation within the law to support this statement.

It will be interesting to see what kind of response I get from Officer Marston.
Man, I cannot believe these people are giving out that kind of advice when the law clearly gives exceptions to the rule, they say it is illegal period and do not even point out that several exceptions exist for nonresidents and other people who FOID doesn't apply to. That is just plain ridiculous. I'm curious to see what the State Police response is, I assume it will be something along the line of "it's illegal because I said so"

Edit: In response to your next post about local ordinance, Gurnee is in Lake County, I checked the link, I don't see Gurnee or Lake County listed
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:19 AM   #213
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very nice! I very much look forward to that response...did you happen to include the exact wording of the email? It even has the date & time it was sent.

My guess is the response will be pointing you to the FOID act...the part which states you must have a FOID to buy ammo.

They'll completely ignore section 3, paragraph c.
I cut and pasted the entire message from Larry Whiteley including the quotation of Officer Marston's message, date, time, etc.
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:27 AM   #214
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Quote:
"Public Act 92-0238, Illinois Compiled Statutes (430 ILCS 65/13.3), approved on August 3, 2001, amends the Firearm Owners Identification Card Act. This amendment requires that within 6 months after the effective date, every municipality must submit to the Illinois State Police a copy of every ordinance adopted by the municipality that regulates the acquisition, possession, or transfer of firearms within the municipality and must submit, as soon as possible after adoption, every such ordinance adopted after the initial submission. Public Act 92-0238, Illinois Compiled Statutes (430 ILCS 65/13.3), also provides that the Illinois State Police shall compile the ordinances and publish them in a form available to the public free of charge and shall periodically update the compilation.
I bolded the parts im talking about.


The first part, they have only mentioned firearms, nothing about ammo.

The second part talks about the section in the FOID act, specifically what you've posted:

Quote:
(430 ILCS 65/13.3)
Sec. 13.3. Municipal ordinance submission. Within 6 months after the effective date of this amendatory Act of the 92nd General Assembly, every municipality must submit to the Department of State Police a copy of every ordinance adopted by the municipality that regulates the acquisition, possession, sale, or transfer of firearms within the municipality and must submit, 30 days after adoption, every such ordinance adopted after its initial submission of ordinances under this Section. The Department of State Police shall compile these ordinances and publish them in a form available to the public free of charge and shall periodically update this compilation of ordinances in a manner prescribed by the Director of State Police.
(Source: P.A. 92-238, eff. 8-3-01.)


I really do hope they point to this, because if we are to take this as it's written, then not even local municipalities can restrict ammunition on their own, according to law...they can only do it to firearms.
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:48 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimePorkchop View Post
I really do hope they point to this, because if we are to take this as it's written, then not even local municipalities can restrict ammunition on their own, according to law...they can only do it to firearms.
I wish it was that simple. In Oklahoma, the law says:

§21-1290.25.

LEGISLATIVE INTENT

The Legislature finds as a matter of public policy and fact that it is
necessary to provide statewide uniform standards for issuing licenses
to carry concealed handguns for lawful self-defense and
self-protection, and further finds it necessary to occupy the field of
regulation of the bearing of concealed handguns to ensure that no
honest, law-abiding citizen who qualifies pursuant to the provisions
of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Sections 1 through 25 of this act,
is subjectively or arbitrarily denied their rights
. The Legislature
does not delegate to the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation any
authority to regulate or restrict the issuing of licenses except as
provided by the provisions of this act. Subjective or arbitrary
actions or rules which encumber the issuing process by placing burdens
on the applicant beyond those requirements detailed in the provisions
of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act or which create restrictions beyond
those specified in this act are deemed to be in conflict with the
intent of this act and are hereby prohibited.
The Oklahoma
Self-Defense Act shall be liberally construed to carry out the
constitutional right to bear arms for self-defense and
self-protection. The provisions of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act are
cumulative to existing rights to bear arms and nothing in Sections 1
through 25 of this act shall impair or diminish those rights.

I know we're just a bunch of Okies out here, but we do know something about "existing rights to bear arms".

Too bad Illinois didn't simplify matters by legislating something like the above. Unfortunately, they deliberately left it open to allow municipalities to make more stringent laws. I don't think the wording prevents municipalities from legislating ammunition transfers. It only requires them to inform the ISP when the legislation is about firearms. They could conceivably not inform ISP when the legislation is only about ammunition.
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Old 03-13-2012, 05:58 AM   #216
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Quote:
They could conceivably not inform ISP when the legislation is only about ammunition.
That is very true, it could not be in that paragraph because it's not applicable...but my first thought on that is all the BPS stores in Illinois have it, regardless of their location, and they're all citing illinois FOID law, and not a local municipality

it's still plausible, and probable, only time will tell +)
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:20 AM   #217
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Have you folks heard anything back from the state police yet? I would be very interested to find out how they respond. If various companies have been operating under guidance from a state police official, and this guidance is faulty, there may be civil ramifications.

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Old 03-22-2012, 05:04 PM   #218
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Have you folks heard anything back from the state police yet? I would be very interested to find out how they respond. If various companies have been operating under guidance from a state police official, and this guidance is faulty, there may be civil ramifications.
Have not heard a single peep. I've sent multiple e-mails and made several phone calls. Keep getting an answering machine every time i'm transferred.

When the receptionist answers the phone, I explain to her what the issue is and ask her to transfer me to a representative that I can speak with about it - she agrees to transfer, but refuses to give me a direct # to that persons office, she will only transfer me.

And once she transfers, it goes straight to voice mail.

Pathetic.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:37 AM   #219
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No responses to me either. None from BPS and none from ISP.

Pathetic is right. I can almost understand ISP wanting to dodge the issue, but BPS is denying themselves the opportunity to sell product. Wonder what their stockholders would think about that? Wonder what Top Gun audiences would think about that? Wonder how to get that word out to those folks?...

Sorry, Jim. We're still trying! Keep 'em in the X-ring buddy!

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