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Old 03-05-2013, 06:31 PM   #111
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Well not all the blame could be on the teachers. Some students bought grades that way

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Old 03-05-2013, 06:34 PM   #112
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I know what you mean there. Girls who make the "honor roll".

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Old 03-05-2013, 07:15 PM   #113
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I think we are getting a little off topic here folks!!!

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Old 03-05-2013, 08:05 PM   #114
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I get what your saying but the same arguments were used against CCW 20 years ago. "Some folks can't handle it", "Not everyone is as proficient or well adjusted as you are", "the streets will run red with blood over fender benders"...ECT...ECT...

We've heard them all and over 20 years society has proved them wrong. Misuse or mistakes by CCW holders ate so rare they are statistically irrevant because those willing to jump through the hoops to carry a gun legally are already the most law abiding citizens we've got.

Are "some" teachers ASS HATS, sure, but there not the ones who already have CCW and there not the ones who would choose to pursue it.

I have several relatives who teach and carry and would love to do both at the same time. I've shot with teachers locally and encounter several per year while pulling RSO duty at my gun club.

The ones who would choose to do ^^THIS^^ are just as honest and trustworthy as ANY of us and we all should be pushing for the abolition of GFZ's rather that the creation of another tax payer funded law enforcement wing.

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Originally Posted by fa35jsf View Post
I am inclined to agree with you however there are a few bad teachers in every school. Hell, my country @$$ town had problems with teachers sleeping with students, MULTIPLE TIMES!!!!

Our education system SUCKS!!! Teachers like this should not be protected but rather fired! And these teachers exhibit "symptoms" of bad behavior too, just like any of the mass shooters have, just in different ways.

The problem is counselors and principles side with the teacher.

In short, although I agree that in a perfect world there should not be any addition requirements to allow a teacher to CC if they have the legal right to do it, we don't live in that perfect world. Plus, come on, some sort of additional requirements will soften those liberals to our position a little bit.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:17 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry1
I get what your saying but the same arguments were used against CCW 20 years ago. "Some folks can't handle it", "Not everyone is as proficient or well adjusted as you are", "the streets will run red with blood over fender benders"...ECT...ECT...

We've heard them all and over 20 years society has proved them wrong. Misuse or mistakes by CCW holders ate so rare they are statistically irrevant because those willing to jump through the hoops to carry a gun legally are already the most law abiding citizens we've got.

Are "some" teachers ASS HATS, sure, but there not the ones who already have CCW and there not the ones who would choose to pursue it.

I have several relatives who teach and carry and would love to do both at the same time. I've shot with teachers locally and encounter several per year while pulling RSO duty at my gun club.

The ones who would choose to do ^^THIS^^ are just as honest and trustworthy as ANY of us and we all should be pushing for the abolition of GFZ's rather that the creation of another tax payer funded law enforcement wing.

Tack
Great post Tack and I understand what you are saying. I was not advocating any addition gov agency. Rather I think that just the school board privately reviewing and allowing teachers to do so would be appropriate. After all, the more local something is the better the situation is know.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:10 PM   #116
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Great post Tack and I understand what you are saying. I was not advocating any addition gov agency. Rather I think that just the school board privately reviewing and allowing teachers to do so would be appropriate. After all, the more local something is the better the situation is know.
Yes, local is always better but many school board would choose not to act on this for their own political reasons... So, while I trust the dozens of teachers I've shot with or supervised, I do not trust any political body to do the right thing without ridiculous costs or requirements.

The killers already ignore the GFZ's or worse... Are drawn to them. Eliminating them would cost no more than the removal of some signage and updating of some literature. It would also leave no "list" that could fall into the wrong hands NOR would it provide a "mandatory first target" in the form of uniformed security or LEO's.

Remember, Lanza was an anomaly... Every other school shooter shot up the school they attended so any future shooter could overcome armed security simply by targeting them first.

What we need is for the Feds to repeal the federal gun free school zone policy and let the States do what they will. I've no doubt moving forward we'd continue to see mass shootings in Blue state schools and see a sudden halt to them or stoppage of them in Red States.

Tack
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Old 03-05-2013, 11:50 PM   #117
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Jim, I work full-time for an education association. My mother has also taught for 15+ years. I speak with probably more experience than anyone here on understanding the demographic and the current state of public education.....and with diminishing budgets its about to get MUCH worse over the next 5 years, specially with each new privatized charter school that opens run by complete morons.

You may have a friend/cousin/brother who teaches & enjoys shooting but most public school teachers are democratic, fairly liberal folks who teach because its a selfless job that will never make them a millionaire.....they do it because they love kids and teaching. And most are females (approx 70% in my state) who dont own guns. Period.
I would have to agree with this. It certainly holds true in my wife's district......And yeah, I think REQUIRING them to be armed would be a bad idea, voluntary is the way to go.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:29 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tackleberry1 View Post
I get what your saying but the same arguments were used against CCW 20 years ago. "Some folks can't handle it", "Not everyone is as proficient or well adjusted as you are", "the streets will run red with blood over fender benders"...ECT...ECT...

We've heard them all and over 20 years society has proved them wrong. Misuse or mistakes by CCW holders ate so rare they are statistically irrevant because those willing to jump through the hoops to carry a gun legally are already the most law abiding citizens we've got.

Are "some" teachers ASS HATS, sure, but there not the ones who already have CCW and there not the ones who would choose to pursue it.

I have several relatives who teach and carry and would love to do both at the same time. I've shot with teachers locally and encounter several per year while pulling RSO duty at my gun club.

The ones who would choose to do ^^THIS^^ are just as honest and trustworthy as ANY of us and we all should be pushing for the abolition of GFZ's rather that the creation of another tax payer funded law enforcement wing.

Tack
If they lived in AL, by state law, they can do both!!!
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:16 PM   #119
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Jim, I work full-time for an education association. My mother has also taught for 15+ years. I speak with probably more experience than anyone here on understanding the demographic and the current state of public education.....and with diminishing budgets its about to get MUCH worse over the next 5 years, specially with each new privatized charter school that opens run by complete morons.

You may have a friend/cousin/brother who teaches & enjoys shooting but most public school teachers are democratic, fairly liberal folks who teach because its a selfless job that will never make them a millionaire.....they do it because they love kids and teaching. And most are females (approx 70% in my state) who dont own guns. Period.
SS

Job requirements evolve over time. I am a father of 4 with kids aged 20, 17, 4, and 2... So I've been dealing with the public education system for the last 15 years and will bs dealing with it for the next 15 years.

I've no doubt your mom is dedicated but the system she serves in BROKEN. As a parent, I expect my kids to be protected in school and if sweet little Polly ANN kindergarten teacher is opposed to training and arming herself then she should go Barista for Starbucks and leave the teaching to adults capable o not only handling this responsibility but of instilling disciple as well.

And do not tell me its NOT the teachers. Teachers ARE there union the same way WE are the NRA. They put up with and often embrace the PC BS because there more worried about their benefit package than doing there job.

... And did I hear you slamm hatter schools? From what I've seen Charter schools turn in far better scores and produce far better results than any public school. Personally I'd love an exemption to the 7k of property taxes I pay every year for public schools so I could afford to send my kids to private school instead.

Bigger than the security problem is the education problem and it will not be fixed by the unions or the government. Competition that ultimately collapses public schools is the only solution.

Tack
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:59 PM   #120
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Some of you may have forgotten the program to train, arm and deputize airline pilots . The government sabotaged the program by blowing 25 million dollars in funding while training as few pilots as possible .
The same thing could happen if you instititute some bureaucratic training and licensing system for teachers. If you want armed teachers, just respect their Second Amendment Rights .

Carry permit laws, by the way ( BTW ) , are unenforceable, ineffective in keeping criminals from carrying guns, harmful--- by deterring law-abiding citizens from carrying ( those who don't go to the trouble and expense of getting a permit ), expensive in administrative costs and diversion of police resources to clerical duties ( paper shuffling and checking on law-abiding citizens ) and worst of all :an unconstitutional infringement of the Right To Keep And Bear Arms ) .

Ironic that we talk about allowing armed teachers as if it would be a risky step for us to take and a big responsibility if it led to problems, but disarming our teachers is no big moral dilemma !

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