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Old 05-10-2014, 03:24 PM   #1
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Default Gun transfer laws stall firearm returns

http://www.reporterherald.com/news/loveland-local-news/ci_25725491/gun-transfer-laws-stall-firearm-returns

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The last time Sara Warren saw her personal handgun was in the ambulance after an accident on March 28. The police have refused to give the firearm back to her.
The Loveland resident was taken to the Poudre Valley Hospital where her personal firearm was turned over to Fort Collins Police Services — where it's been ever since.
Due to advice from the city attorney's office based on the Colorado gun transfer laws that went into effect July 1, 2013, the police have been unable to return her property.
"I'm told there are other people in this situation," Sheriff Justin Smith said. "It's terrible when a law-abiding citizen gets caught up in something like this and it causes them to lose faith in their government."
Warren said she used her Ruger compact SR9 handgun as protection during her work as a maid, entering strangers' homes alone. She has had to turn down work, not willing to risk her safety.
"We had an opinion from our city attorney and district attorney not to return firearms without a (Federal Firearms License) check, and we don't have an FFL person in our office," said Fort Collins deputy chief Jim Szakmeister.
Even if the opinion of the city attorney & the DA are to be taken at face value, apparently it's too hard to broker it through a gun shop?
What a load of excrement. Sounds like the citizens of Colorado still have some work to do. Stupid laws cause stupid problems.
IMHO, the burden is on the agency to return the citizen's property as soon as reasonably possible.
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Old 05-10-2014, 03:50 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Overkill0084 View Post
http://www.reporterherald.com/news/loveland-local-news/ci_25725491/gun-transfer-laws-stall-firearm-returns


Even if the opinion of the city attorney & the DA are to be taken at face value, apparently it's too hard to broker it through a gun shop?
What a load of excrement. Sounds like the citizens of Colorado still have some work to do. Stupid laws cause stupid problems.
IMHO, the burden is on the agency to return the citizen's property as soon as reasonably possible.
I would suspect it is by design and not an unintended consequence.

Don't worry, the voters in CO will put back the democrats that lost in the special recall elections and things will get back to being "groovy man, groovy".

OH, forgot,
Dude.
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Old 05-10-2014, 06:44 PM   #3
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Pure hogwash. In the case in the original post, THERE IS NO TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP of the firearm.

If the elected officials persist in this behavior, a criminal charge of theft of a firearm should be brought against them, as well as a charge of abuse of authority.
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Old 05-10-2014, 08:29 PM   #4
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Attachment 143607


Pure hogwash. In the case in the original post, THERE IS NO TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP of the firearm.

If the elected officials persist in this behavior, a criminal charge of theft of a firearm should be brought against them, as well as a charge of abuse of authority.
Ah if it were only that simple. Without Money, there is nothing she can do and if she is a Democrat, Good, I hope she never gets her property back.

The police want to give it back, but a new universal background check law passed last year amid much controversy requires a Federal Firearms License background check.


http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/09/colorado-woman-cant-get-her-gun-back-thanks-to-new-law/

Only way this law is not the law is if someone with $money$ takes the State of CO to Court.
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:13 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by c3shooter View Post
Attachment 143607


Pure hogwash. In the case in the original post, THERE IS NO TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP of the firearm.

If the elected officials persist in this behavior, a criminal charge of theft of a firearm should be brought against them, as well as a charge of abuse of authority.
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Originally Posted by mseric View Post
Ah if it were only that simple. Without Money, there is nothing she can do and if she is a Democrat, Good, I hope she never gets her property back.

The police want to give it back, but a new universal background check law passed last year amid much controversy requires a Federal Firearms License background check.


http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/09/colorado-woman-cant-get-her-gun-back-thanks-to-new-law/

Only way this law is not the law is if someone with $money$ takes the State of CO to Court.
Have to agree with C3 here. If she is smart, and she saved the sales receipt for her pistol, she should go to the city department with a deputy or a lawyer, and inform them that if they do not return HER property, SHE will press charges.

As C3 said, it is her gun, and if she has proof, legally, it must be returned to her ASAP.
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Old 05-11-2014, 12:25 AM   #6
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Have to agree with C3 here. If she is smart, and she saved the sales receipt for her pistol, she should go to the city department with a deputy or a lawyer, and inform them that if they do not return HER property, SHE will press charges.

As C3 said, it is her gun, and if she has proof, legally, it must be returned to her ASAP.
and any receipt for the sale of a firearm has the firearms serial number on that receipt.

personally, this is BS. there isn't a transfer of ownership. it's her gun not the police departments.

for what reason did the police department take possession of her gun to begin with?
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Old 05-11-2014, 01:12 AM   #7
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There is a world of difference between taking POSSESSION of a firearm, and transferring ownership. The law in Colorado requires a background check when transferring ownership.

I am flying to a hunting trip. My rifle is in my checked baggage. I surrender POSSESSION of my rifle to the airline. I did not transfer ownership of my rifle to them. When I get to my destination, they pass possession back to me.

There are multiple situations where a LEO may take possession of a firearm or other property to secure it- until it can be returned to the owner. In this case, the lady was in an accident, transported by ambulance- and the EMTs surrendered her firearm to LEOs for safe keeping.

Unless the PD has cause to believe she is a "prohibited person" there is no legitimate reason to refuse to return her sidearm. Again, the Colorado law is with regard to firearm TRANSFERS. The officials involved should be charged with felony douchebaggery.

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Old 05-11-2014, 11:48 AM   #8
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Should be, but won't be.

The FFL transfer you guys speak of is a Federal Regulation. The State of Colorado has added to this regulation within the State. Nothing that I'm aware of says that a State cannot increase or add to a Federal regulation within their own State.

No different then the "waiting period" some states have added to the "Regulations' when purchasing a firearm. Nothing in the ATF or Federal regulations calls for a "waiting" period, but several States have added this to their own State regulations.

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Old 05-11-2014, 01:30 PM   #9
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I AM speaking of the Colorado State law.

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Old 05-11-2014, 01:43 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mseric View Post
Should be, but won't be.

The FFL transfer you guys speak of is a Federal Regulation. The State of Colorado has added to this regulation within the State. Nothing that I'm aware of says that a State cannot increase or add to a Federal regulation within their own State.

No different then the "waiting period" some states have added to the "Regulations' when purchasing a firearm. Nothing in the ATF or Federal regulations calls for a "waiting" period, but several States have added this to their own State regulations.
transfer denotes ownership. if i buy a raffle at a fundraiser and win a gun, i have to complete an FFL form 4473, because ownership thrnasfered.

if i buy a gun at the gun store, same thing.

ownership of her pistol never changed. the police only took possession of the pistol for safekeeping, because she was injured and had to go to the hospital.

she never sold the pistol and by all accounts still owns the pistol. so no transfer is needed, even by state law or federal law. they are keeping in their possesion, property that doesn't belong to them.
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