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Old 11-06-2011, 06:20 PM   #71
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Excellent post, thumbs' up.
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Old 11-06-2011, 06:22 PM   #72
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what's to stop the men in black from searching your home if it comes to that?

You may think I'm paranoid, fine, I think I'm just being aware of possible circumstances. Especially if the current Socialist in Chief is reelected. Mao said that all power comes from the barrel of a gun. Pay attention.
1. A bullet.

2. The paranoid are the ones who will be prepared for when it does happen. Sometimes, it's good to be paranoid.

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they arent going to take them by force. the public school system will "educate" enough kids that in time they will just comply and hand em over. socialists and liberals dont think in terms of a month or a year or a decade they think in terms of generations from now.
That is one reason why a number of ftf members have created the G.F.F.A. One of our main objectives is to teach children and adults about guns and gun safety. We will not just stand by and let this happen. We will fight this.
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:04 PM   #73
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You're not under the impression that I approve of our current gun laws, are you? Just because a thing is legal, as the 4473 certainly is under current law, does not mean it is a good idea. GCA'68 is a bad idea. NFA'34 is a bad idea. Both have withstood all legal challenges. So far.
If a law contradicts the constitution, do you believe you are obliged to obey it? If a court upholds that law which you know is clearly unconstitutional, do you believe you are obliged to obey it? I'm not pretending no harm will come to someone who ignores an unlawful law.

I'm just curious whether or not people here have a threshold. What law would you not obey?
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Old 11-06-2011, 07:06 PM   #74
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I don't think you're paranoid for thinking that there are people who want to ban guns outright. There absolutely are such people, and it wasn't very long ago that they riding roughshod over us, and pro-gunners were turning against each other, with the skeet and duck-gun and walnut-stocked bolt rifle crowd willingly leaving the "assault weapon" and high-capacity handgun guys for dead, hoping that would satisfy the monster. It didn't. Everything they ask for is just one small step toward a total ban, if they could have it their way.

Happily, the tide has turned, at least for now, and the anti-gunners no longer enjoy the kind of support they once did. They're still dangerous, and always will be. But for now, gun rights are ascendant. We need to stop seeing gun confiscation behind every tree and under every rock and use this time to advance our cause. Bitching about the gun-grabbers gets us nowhere. Cutting off their political support does.

Support pro-gun candidates. Join the NRA. Take a novice, or better yet, an anti-gunner shooting. Better yet, take a dozen or two. Nobody doesn't enjoy shooting, once they've tried it, and nobody fears guns once they enjoy and understand them. Turn the enemy's troops into ours.
this is pretty much how it needs to be. many non gunowners are not necessarily anti-gun people, but could be turned into gun owners and pro-gun people if given the chance and education. some have the wrong misconception of guns due to politicians and the media. we need educate our younger generation and our children of the attack of our 2nd amendment and if that admendment ever falls by the wayside, the others will follow shortly thereafter. we need to protect our 2nd admendment right with politicians who support the 2nd admendment and join groups that will make our voice heard in washington.
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:12 PM   #75
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If a law contradicts the constitution, do you believe you are obliged to obey it? If a court upholds that law which you know is clearly unconstitutional, do you believe you are obliged to obey it? I'm not pretending no harm will come to someone who ignores an unlawful law.
Of course you're not obliged to obey an unconstitutional law. Of course, the question is what, exactly, is unconstitutional? You can, of course, follow your personal interpretation of the constitution; you might be right, and the mechanisms of law might be wrong.

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I'm just curious whether or not people here have a threshold. What law would you not obey?
What is the likelihood of being found in violation of the law? What is the penalty for disobeying the law? The lower the "cost" of disobeying the law, the more people will disobey it.

If I'm unlikely to be caught possessing a banned gun, and the penalty if I am caught is seizure of the gun and maybe a fine, then I'll probably disobey the law with glee.

If it's highly likely I'll be caught, and the penalty is a long prison sentence or death, I'll be a lot more likely to obey, out of self-interest.

What is the benefit of defying the law? Will mass defiance defeat the law? I might bear a higher cost if there is a valuable benefit.

Incentives are everything.
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Old 11-06-2011, 08:45 PM   #76
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What is the likelihood of being found in violation of the law? What is the penalty for disobeying the law? The lower the "cost" of disobeying the law, the more people will disobey it.

If I'm unlikely to be caught possessing a banned gun, and the penalty if I am caught is seizure of the gun and maybe a fine, then I'll probably disobey the law with glee.

If it's highly likely I'll be caught, and the penalty is a long prison sentence or death, I'll be a lot more likely to obey, out of self-interest.

What is the benefit of defying the law? Will mass defiance defeat the law? I might bear a higher cost if there is a valuable benefit.

Incentives are everything.
What you wrote is truly brilliant. Incentives are everything.

My follow-up questions might be: 1. Can the people recognize the incremental nature of legislatures and think a few moves ahead; and 2. Is the preservation of individual liberty and freedom enough of an incentive to disobey a law and take on any risk even if the law being disobeyed is, by itself, not terribly onerous but serves as a framework for more onerous laws in the future?

If Congress were to legislate a total ban on all firearms with mandatory confiscation, there would be a revolt. Such a law couldn't even come about because too few representatives and senators would go along with it.

But instead, if this year Congress passes a law to merely register all firearms, and registration permits would be free and on a must-issue basis, and if you refused to register a firearm and were caught with it you would be fined $10,000 and go to prison for ten years, perhaps most people would not object.

And if next year Congress passes a law that reinstated Clinton's AWB but extended it to all semi-auto firearms but grandfathered all registered firearms in, maybe even that would pass muster. No semi-auto firearms made after September, 2012 may be owned by anyone.

And if the year after Congress extended that ban to include all firearms of any sort made after a certain date...that might conceivably get through.

And if the year after that, Congress made it illegal to inherit any firearm and made personal sales of firearms illegal, then the cycle would be complete.

In the span of a few years (a decade or so) it may be possible to bring about an effective total ban on all firearms. But in one piece of legislation, such an act would not be possible.

Hence my question: what laws would folks here choose to disobey, knowing the nature of government to work incrementally achieve a goal? It's a rhetorical question; I don't expect or want replies. But it would be good if people thought about this.

There is no purpose for firearm registration except eventual confiscation.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:39 AM   #77
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Gun buyers do not pay for NICS background checks.

.
Idk how it works where you live, but where I live, we most certainly do pay for the background check. Its 10 bucks all the time, every time.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:45 AM   #78
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You're in Tennessee; you don't use NICS. You use TICS. That's your state government charging you for your background checks. Even the Feds don't do that.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:55 AM   #79
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All I know is that if the time comes to bury them, it's time to use them.
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Old 11-07-2011, 02:28 AM   #80
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People say "WE could never stand up to our armed forces..."

True enough. HOWEVER...what one must remember is that our armed forces are made up of our sons and daughters. The truth is, our sons and daughters won't stand up against "us". I honestly believe the VAST majority of the military command would refuse to order their troops to march against american citizens.

Why? Because every soldier from Buck Private to General Officer swore an oath to THE CONSTITUTION.

Every cop swore an oath to THE CONSTITUTION.

If things got that bad in this country...I believe most and by MOST I mean high 90% of cops and military would rebel and fight FOR the people.

I know I swore an oath to THE CONSTITUTION. I did NOT swear an oath to "da gub'ment" or to "da prezzzz". My oath meant, to me, that I was to uphold and defend THE CONSTITUTION against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic...and if the GOV becomes that enemy so be it. My neighbors and people in MY community who I served and protected for so many years are NOT the enemy. I know my wife feels the same way. Most if the officers with whom I ever worked are of the same mindset. NONE of us liked working with feds. We used to call the FBI the FUMBLING BUMBLING IDIOTS.

As the climate in this country changes and armed revolt seems MORE likely than ever...especially through the heartland. They said "The South Will Rise Again"...well..."The New South" will be damned near everywhere but Commifornia, New Jork, and Massachoozits.

HUNDREDS of millions of guns. BILLIONS of rounds of ammunition. TENS OF MILLIONS of armed citizens. Think of it this way....the russkies weren't able to beat down and control Filthganistan. Nor have we been able to, and we have the BEST equipped most well trained military on the planet. Same in I-rack. Those countries don't have a tenth of the population we have armed here. Add the rebelling units in the military who would ACTIVELY resist any who WOULD fight americans at home, and every one of us who still remember what FREEDOM is...da gub'ment knows that force is an untenable position.

Do you honestly think the CITIZENS of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, ALL the southeastern states would roll over fo that kind of nonsense? It would be bloody. It would be horrible. It would be so awful as to not even picture it. Even the most liberal and socialist of lawmakers KNOW they'd NEVER be able to show their heads inn public again for fear of having a hillbilly with a huntin' rifle ventilate his knoggin.

For the same reason Hitler and Hirohito NEVER considered invading during the WWII...."Behind every blade of grass is a man with a rifle".

One poster was close to the way it "could" happen....brainwashing the children generations down the road. Clinton tried it with the 94 AWB. It cost the ones who voted for it their seats, and what they crave most...POWER. They aren't going to try it that way again.

Damn....coffee again.
Arizona, keep drinking that coffee. We need someone like you in office.

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All I know is that if the time comes to bury them, it's time to use them.
My thoughts exactly.
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