[PeteZaHut]

I have heard one argument against gun registration being that if there was ever a takeover of the government, the bad guys would know which citizens to disarm. In VA, you don't have to register your firearms, but when you buy one, you still fill out a little form where you put your name and the weapon's serial #. Who has access to that? Also, if you have a concealed carry permit, is that pretty much like having a registered firearm?

[silverado113]

Originally Posted by PeteZaHut

I have heard one argument against gun registration being that if there was ever a takeover of the government, the bad guys would know which citizens to disarm. In VA, you don't have to register your firearms, but when you buy one, you still fill out a little form where you put your name and the weapon's serial #. Who has access to that? Also, if you have a concealed carry permit, is that pretty much like having a registered firearm?

The 4473 is what you are talking about and that stays with the gun shop. Now the logbook has to go to the ATF is a gun store gets their FFL taken away or goes out of business but I believe the 4473 gets shreded. On the CCP it just says you can carry you don't have to give them how many guns, what you carry, serial numbers, etc so not really. When I moved onto base in NC a few years back I had to register my guns. The actually looked at every gun I owned (10 at that time) and wrote down the serial numbers, model and calibre to every one. When I asked why they told "that way if we get a call to your house, we know to come in with a 9mm or an MP5.

[ttolhurst]

Originally Posted by silverado113

Now the logbook has to go to the ATF is a gun store gets their FFL taken away or goes out of business but I believe the 4473 gets shreded.

Both the bound book and the 4473's get sent to ATF when an FFL discontinues business.

[CA357]

I'm wearing my tinfoil hat right now, but I believe that those 4473's may eventually be used to confiscate firearms.

The BATFE can enter a gun shop at any time and demand to see all the 4473's. They are free to take notes of any or every one. It's not much of a stretch to just take them under the "Patriot" Act or the pretense of domestic terrorism.

Tinfoil hat off now.

[willfully armed]

Originally Posted by CA357

I'm wearing my tinfoil hat right now, but I believe that those 4473's may eventually be used to confiscate firearms.

The BATFE can enter a gun shop at any time and demand to see all the 4473's. They are free to take notes of any or every one. It's not much of a stretch to just take them under the "Patriot" Act or the pretense of domestic terrorism.

Tinfoil hat off now.

I do believe a warrant is needed for that.

[CA357]

The L.E. organizations have essentially become paramilitary. The "War on Terrorism" has changed the game. A nicety like a warrant has essentially been superseded by emergency powers.

[ttolhurst]

Originally Posted by CA357

I'm wearing my tinfoil hat right now, but I believe that those 4473's may eventually be used to confiscate firearms.

Perhaps, but they are of limited use. The 4473 only documents the sale of a firearm from an FFL to an unlicensed individual. Unless the state has its own firearms registration system in place, the firearm gets lost in any subsequent private party sales.

[willfully armed]

And after 7 years, those 4473 forms are to be destroyed by the licensee.

This means that MOST firearms sold before Oct 2004, in free states without mandatory registration, do not exist "on the books"

[ttolhurst]

Originally Posted by willfully armed

And after 7 years, those 4473 forms are to be destroyed by the licensee.

No, they must be retained for at least 20 years. There is no requirement to destroy them after the minimum 20 year retention period.

[Durangokid]

I had a Charter Arms Bulldog traced back to me after 35 years. If you don't think these records are being kept and used by the Feds you are living on the Yellow Brick Road.