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Old 08-08-2013, 04:01 PM   #41
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Fine.
Edit: Remember, juries are groups of people not clever enough to get out of jury duty or they are selfless heroes of the community. Better?

My point is, NO ONE knows what might be relevant or precedent setting in the future. There is no shortage of stupidity coming out of the courts. As this country gets more liberal and feeling driven, no one can say that gun mods will never be relevant to the jury verdict. 53% of people reelected the current occupant of the white house. That also 53% of the jury pool. You live in MA, the percentages are much worse that the national average. How confident are you really, that you could get an emotionless, objective & intelligent jury that won't simply despise you for being a gun owner who killed some momma's little angel?
So a blanket statement saying: MODIFICATIONS TO A GUN USED IN SELF DEFENSE CANNOT BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A COURT OF LAW, is presumptuous at best. It should probably read: Lawful MODIFICATIONS TO A GUN USED IN SELF DEFENSE probably won't/shouldn't/ought to not BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A COURT OF LAW. Pick one.

I agree that stuff like that (mods/reloads, whatever) shouldn't matter. However, I'm not naive enough to assume that they never could. Mods, reloads and such add variables to what would be simple SD incident. IMHO, unneeded variables should be avoided. No one wants to be the unfortunate defendant in a "precedent setting" case, at least not in this context.
Depends on how good your lawyer is.

If he's good, he can get any mods excluded before it's presented to a jury.

The DA/Prosecutor has a harder time getting included as evidence, since there is no case law or precedent. Which means he'll have to convince the judge that the mods made the WEAPON "more dangerous".

Like I said, if the mods don't violate any state or federal gun laws, it will be difficult.

Oh, and there are more gun friendly people here in this state than you think.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:40 PM   #42
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Depends on how good your lawyer is.
If he's good, he can get any mods excluded before it's presented to a jury.

The DA/Prosecutor has a harder time getting included as evidence, since there is no case law or precedent. Which means he'll have to convince the judge that the mods made the WEAPON "more dangerous".

Like I said, if the mods don't violate any state or federal gun laws, it will be difficult. True. But difficult does not = impossible.

Oh, and there are more gun friendly people here in this state than you think. I'm sure there are. How many can you count on being on your jury?
It's not that you're wrong, Your assertions are spot on. I just hold a pessimistic view of our justice system. I figure that if I'm going to trial, depending on the common sense & good nature of people in the justice system is a mistake. If things turn ugly, you're just another case in need of closing as far as the DA's office is concerned. Anything that can be used to paint me as irresponsible or bloodthirsty will be brought up. That set of really cool Punisher grips might be used to paint you as some sort of bloodthirsty vigilante. As a set of "Molon Labe" grips or etching in the slide might get you treated as a right wing extremist. I take nothing for granted. Expect the worst and you won't be disappointed.
I'm sure that George Zimmerman never thought his lawful shooting would turn out as it has. Turns out, he was nothing but grease for the gears in the machine that is racial politics.
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:49 PM   #43
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You guys have got this out of kilter.

Don't worry about the DA and the criminal case. IF IT'S A RIGHTEOUS SHOOTING YOU''RE GONNA BE OKAY REGARDLESS!!

The crap comes in the inevitable "wrongful death" civil case that comes after the criminal trial.

Even if you win, lawyers fees are going to bankrupt you!

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Old 08-08-2013, 09:56 PM   #44
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There is no such thing as "Cant be used against you in a court of law". The jury hears what they want. If an attorney makes a statement and is is termed "Objection" doesnt erase what the jury heard. It only means they they cannot use the specific statement as evidence.

The jury will always decide on what they know, think, feel, believe and remember. The rest doesnt matter.

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Old 08-08-2013, 10:00 PM   #45
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There is no such thing as "Cant be used against you in a court of law". The jury hears what they want. If an attorney makes a statement and is is termed "Objection" doesnt erase what the jury heard. It only means they they cannot use the specific statement as evidence.

The jury will always decide on what they know, think, feel, believe and remember. The rest doesnt matter.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:00 PM   #46
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MODIFICATIONS TO A GUN USED IN SELF DEFENSE CANNOT BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A COURT OF LAW.
You guys can roll those dice. Call me what you like, I won't.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:36 PM   #47
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I've had at least a dozen attorneys tell me not only to carry factory ammo, but to try to carry whatever the local police carry.`

The "average juror" knows little or nothing about guns or ammo. So if you carry the same ammo as the police, Mr. average juror will believe that you followed the lead of the "experts" so you did the right thing.
If you are using the same ammo as the local cops, it will be very difficult for the prosecutor to call the ammo "evil" and showing an intent to kill. Load hot hand loads or Black Talons, and you will be severely beaten up in front of the jury.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:40 PM   #48
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proabably more than one person has been found not guilty in a criminal trial, only to lose a civil case from the same incident.

another thing that has to be considered, is that a criminal trial is done by the state's prosecutor or the district attorney's office and a civil case is brought before the court by an attorney for the family of the slain person.
That is simply because a criminal conviction usually has to meet the "beyond reasonable doubt" standard. Civil cases are based only on the preponderance of the evidence, a far easier standard to prove.

There is always an ambulance chaser who will take any case, be willing to bet a few billable hours against a win. They do that often, win some/lose some cases and make a hell of a good living.
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:48 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by wittmeba View Post
There is no such thing as "Cant be used against you in a court of law". The jury hears what they want. If an attorney makes a statement and is is termed "Objection" doesnt erase what the jury heard. It only means they they cannot use the specific statement as evidence.

The jury will always decide on what they know, think, feel, believe and remember. The rest doesnt matter.
Can only be used against you if the DA gets it entered into evidence. If the judge excludes it, neither side can mention it, and if the ADA still mentions it, well, there are a few things that can happen - including a mistrial (as well as sanctioning the ADA, even an ethics violation).

Point is, there are many pretrial events, one of the major things is evidence being entered.
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:53 AM   #50
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You guys have got this out of kilter.

Don't worry about the DA and the criminal case. IF IT'S A RIGHTEOUS SHOOTING YOU''RE GONNA BE OKAY REGARDLESS!!

The crap comes in the inevitable "wrongful death" civil case that comes after the criminal trial.

Even if you win, lawyers fees are going to bankrupt you!
And since it is a civil case, how is the other side going to get your gun?
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