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Old 08-07-2013, 12:55 AM   #31
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i see this from several differnet angles and my only goal here is to point out what could happen. personally, what a person does to their firearm that makes it work better for them for the use of SD is fine and i have no problem with it. the same as to the choice of ammo used. if i were sitting on the jury, deciding the fate of someone accused of using deadly force in the defennce of their lives, what modifications or the chosen ammo would not have any bearing on my decision of guilt or innocence. but i am a gun guy.

personally, i also know of no cases where it has been used or was a deciding factor in the guilt or innocence of the person on trial when they used deadly force. but just because it's never been used, does not mean that it couldn't be used.

and simply if a person is in a state where the family can bring a civil lawsuit for wrongful death, the burden of proof is much different. it may have not had a bearing in a criminal trial against you, but may be something that's used against you in a civil trial.
Yeah, the impossible has a way of choosing to not be impossible sometimes. A lot of things supposedly can't happen...Until they do.

If I was on a jury...? No I couldn't see it creating an opinion of guilt based on some mods unless the mods where a cause of negligence. Maybe that's why I'm never asked to do jury duty.......?
.....I said ...duty
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Old 08-07-2013, 02:55 AM   #32
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Who said their going to get my gun!!!!

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Old 08-07-2013, 12:34 PM   #33
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if you use a pistol in a SD shooting, where do you think that pistol will be?

in the chain of evidence. you don't think they aren't going to do ballistics tests on that pistol? you bet they are.

that pistol wil be gone over with a fine tooth comb and a microscope. they will more than likely know more about that psitol than the owner does.
I have seen two weapons, one knife and one gun that were used as weapons and taken by the police. They had marks scribed into them and were kept in a bag. There was no indication they had been disassembled.
I think they save the C.S.I. stuff for high profile cases.
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:33 PM   #34
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I have seen two weapons, one knife and one gun that were used as weapons and taken by the police. They had marks scribed into them and were kept in a bag. There was no indication they had been disassembled.
I think they save the C.S.I. stuff for high profile cases.

Not really. The crime lab work will often depend on whether or not there is any hard evidence that an actual crime has been committed.

Unlike TV, crime labs are always short of staff and budget. And usually several months backlogged on their work.

They won't waste scarce resources if a homicide is going to be considered justifiable by a D.A. or Grand Jury, unless it's critical to the actual outcome of the investigation.
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:27 PM   #35
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I want to help put this urban legend/myth to rest once and for all. ...
And the beat goes on.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:28 PM   #36
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I have done nothing to modify my Glock 21SF and carry only factory made ammo. In case I have to shoot and appear in court I do not want some DA "demonstrating" how I made my firearm / ammo more "kill effective".

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Old 08-08-2013, 02:44 AM   #37
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MODIFICATIONS TO A GUN USED IN SELF DEFENSE CANNOT BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A COURT OF LAW.

There is neither precedence nor case law showing that modifications to a gun used in self defense resulted in the conviction of a shooter who shot a suspect in self defense.
Are you a lawyer, or more specifically a prosecutor? If not, why should I listen to you regarding specific matters of law?
A few years ago, there was no way that a free people would've ever been forced to buy health insurance by their govt either. Yeah well, there's your precedent.
I'm fairly certain that a prosecutor would call my hairstyle into question if he thought it would win him his case.
You are making the huge leap of assuming that because something hasn't happened, that therefore means it cannot happen. Assumption is the mother of all F---ups. Remember, juries are groups of people not clever enough to get out of jury duty.
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Old 08-08-2013, 10:57 AM   #38
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Remember, juries are groups of people not clever enough to get out of jury duty.
And some people actually take their civic duty seriously. Does that mean they are not clever?

He may not be a lawyer, but I have several Lodge Brothers that are (current and former ADAs). He's correct that currently there is no case law or precedent.

BUT, it doesn't mean there can't be a first.

My lawyer Brothers (using MA gun laws as an example) informed me that as long as any mods I make violate State or Federal gun laws, then I can make them.

Does that mean I can lighten the trigger pull from 10 to 5 pounds? Yes. Will it be used against me? DA could try, but it's a legal mod.

Change the recoil spring? Yes. See above.

Sights? Yes. Again, see above.

Laser? Many of our local PDs have Laser sights, though most don't turn them on, unless it's to mess with kittens.

DA has experts that will say it was made to be a more effective killing machine, a half way decent defense attorney will have experts saying that statement is poppycock.
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:56 PM   #39
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Just because you've never had lung cancer doesn't mean it's safe to smoke cigarettes.

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Old 08-08-2013, 03:49 PM   #40
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And some people actually take their civic duty seriously. Does that mean they are not clever?
He may not be a lawyer, but I have several Lodge Brothers that are (current and former ADAs). He's correct that currently there is no case law or precedent.
BUT, it doesn't mean there can't be a first.
My lawyer Brothers (using MA gun laws as an example) informed me that as long as any mods I make violate State or Federal gun laws, then I can make them.
Does that mean I can lighten the trigger pull from 10 to 5 pounds? Yes. Will it be used against me? DA could try, but it's a legal mod.
Change the recoil spring? Yes. See above.
Sights? Yes. Again, see above.
Laser? Many of our local PDs have Laser sights, though most don't turn them on, unless it's to mess with kittens.
DA has experts that will say it was made to be a more effective killing machine, a half way decent defense attorney will have experts saying that statement is poppycock.

Fine.
Edit: Remember, juries are groups of people not clever enough to get out of jury duty or they are selfless heroes of the community. Better?

My point is, NO ONE knows what might be relevant or precedent setting in the future. There is no shortage of stupidity coming out of the courts. As this country gets more liberal and feeling driven, no one can say that gun mods will never be relevant to the jury verdict. 53% of people reelected the current occupant of the white house. That also 53% of the jury pool. You live in MA, the percentages are much worse that the national average. How confident are you really, that you could get an emotionless, objective & intelligent jury that won't simply despise you for being a gun owner who killed some momma's little angel?
So a blanket statement saying: MODIFICATIONS TO A GUN USED IN SELF DEFENSE CANNOT BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A COURT OF LAW, is presumptuous at best. It should probably read: Lawful MODIFICATIONS TO A GUN USED IN SELF DEFENSE probably won't/shouldn't/ought to not BE USED AGAINST YOU IN A COURT OF LAW. Pick one.

I agree that stuff like that (mods/reloads, whatever) shouldn't matter. However, I'm not naive enough to assume that they never could. Mods, reloads and such add variables to what would be simple SD incident. IMHO, unneeded variables should be avoided. No one wants to be the unfortunate defendant in a "precedent setting" case, at least not in this context.
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