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Old 08-05-2013, 02:12 PM   #11
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You could kill an attacker with a frying pan and a prosecutor would find a way to accuse you of using excessive force. You're f*cked if you do and you're f*cked if you don't, so you might as well pack what you want and learn what constitutes a threat...because ultimately, it's going to boil down to circumstances.

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Old 08-05-2013, 02:37 PM   #12
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The improbable is strong with this thread.

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Old 08-05-2013, 03:00 PM   #13
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I have done a trigger job on my Sigma. I carry it once in a while. I carry some factory loads in my guns. I carry hand loads in others. All of my hand loads are to published standards. I do not hot load. I do not plan on shooting anyone. But if I am forced to, I am sure the rest of my life will be changed no matter what type of gun or ammo I was carrying.

I would be more concerned about the prosecution asking why I train in IDPA. I am sure they would ask why we use targets that are shaped like people. I am also sure they would ask about my military training as well. I am sure that the fact that the military actually trained us to kill, would not go well in a self defense trial. But if I am forced to defend myself, that training will be very valuable indeed.

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Old 08-05-2013, 03:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyle_Armoring View Post
Changing the trigger pull on your carry gun is no different than changing the sights, or the backstrap, or the recoil spring assembly, or the magazine release, or the grip texture. Every single one of those items I listed is a modification.
The difference is that the trigger is involved with the firing of the gun.

The jury you would potentially be facing are not armorers they are every day people who likely have little to no experience with a gun.
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:34 PM   #15
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Many years ago my friend was in a court case involving a handgun. The prosecution introduced his "Guns & Ammo" magazine subscription. The prosecution used the handgun articles very effectively to convict him. Courts and lawyers are not "Predictable".

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Old 08-05-2013, 03:42 PM   #16
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There was a civil suit quite a few years ago in this part of the country where "cocked and" locked was an issue.

This was a civil case, not criminal, and the shooting was accidental, not intentional.

The defense leaned heavily on Jeff Cooper's training.

The plaintiff's attorney argued that the 1911 was a military weapon, designed specifically for military use, and had been standard issue for 70 years.

He kept hammering on the fact that the military did not allow "their" weapon to be carried with a round chambered. He called a retired military policeman to testify to how unsafe this procedure was.

The plaintiff won. I don't know how much "weight' this carried with the jury, or whether it was a deciding factor in the verdict. But I haven't carried a 1911 since. If for some reason I ever felt the desire to carry a .45 again, it would be my SIG P220.

Don't give them anything to use against you if you can help it.

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Old 08-05-2013, 03:46 PM   #17
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i seen a case of a docter who was convicted in a self defense case because of the ammo he had in his gun,i dont have all the details it was years ago but since then i only carry factory loads.its just my choice.

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Old 08-05-2013, 04:14 PM   #18
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i seen a case of a docter who was convicted in a self defense case because of the ammo he had in his gun,i dont have all the details it was years ago but since then i only carry factory loads.its just my choice.
I've had at least a dozen attorneys tell me not only to carry factory ammo, but to try to carry whatever the local police carry.`

The "average juror" knows little or nothing about guns or ammo. So if you carry the same ammo as the police, Mr. average juror will believe that you followed the lead of the "experts" so you did the right thing.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyle_Armoring View Post
The improbable is strong with this thread.
Correct you are. We MUST deal in probabilities, not possibilities. It has been my observation after 30+ years of dealing with the legal system, that if your 'modifications' do not reduce the 'safety' of the weapon (lighting the trigger pull is an example which could be used against you) they are not an issue. But because of recent events in FL it is apparent that 'doing the right thing and saying the right thing' will not ALWAYS work out right. So be careful if you live a justification which has those not friendly to the 'armed victim' in positions of authority!!!
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by locutus View Post
I've had at least a dozen attorneys tell me not only to carry factory ammo, but to try to carry whatever the local police carry.`

The "average juror" knows little or nothing about guns or ammo. So if you carry the same ammo as the police, Mr. average juror will believe that you followed the lead of the "experts" so you did the right thing.
Correct you are.
There is no reason to carry anything but 'factory' ammo now as the current SD ammo available is better than most of us could load anyway. It just 'complicates' things if you load your own.
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Last edited by JimRau; 08-06-2013 at 12:59 PM.
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